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Kingmaker Planning Discussion

Moderators: Gary, Michael Doss.

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Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
I've been talking about it, and now I'm finally going to be joining the ranks of Dead Goblins Dungeon Masters. :)

I am going to be running a new adventure path called Kingmaker from Paizo (the folks who used to make Dragon and Dungeon magazines in 3.Xe when they were print magazines). The adventure path is for Paizo's 3.5e update called Pathfinder, but I will be converting it to 4e.

To start off, I highly recommend you read the free to download, spoiler-free, player's guide to the adventure path, available here:

http://paizo.com/store/paizo/pathfinder/adventurePath/kingmaker/v5748btpy8dqh

The theme of the campaign is exploration and kingdom-building. The PC's, sponsored by a faction in an existing country looking for an edge in a potential civil war, are sent to explore, tame, and found their own barony in contested, wild lands next to the sponsor country.

As the PC's found and grow their kingdom, the adventure path will add supplemental rules for running your new kingdom. These are being created for this adventure path, and I will be using them, tweaking as needed to link up with the 4e core of the game.

The game will be set in Paizo's Golarion campaign setting. The regions described in the Kingmaker player's guide are a corner of that world. I have the campaign setting book and can answer questions, but there's also a handy wiki out there with lots of info on geography and culture and so forth:

http://pathfinder.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

The setting is very "kitchen sink"-y, in that there's just about anything you might want to use somewhere. There's European-flavored lands, of course, but also African, Asian, and Egyptian areas, lands ruled by undead, savage areas with dinosaurs, and so forth. I can help you find what you're looking for if you have some ideas you're thinking of.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
« Last edit by Gary on Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:16 am. »
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 4627
I already told Gary I might be interested, but at the very least I won't be able to start until the end of August.
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Mal Geminous - Tiefling Warlord, Scales of War
Corydimbiddle - Gnome Artificer, Points of Light
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
So, that's the flavor and setting. Now, to discuss Player Characters. :)

- All classes and all fully developed PC races (i.e., no Monster Manual only races) are allowed. The Kingmaker player's guide, and the setting itself, assume the 3.5e core 7 races (human, elf, dwarf, halfling, gnome, half-elf, and half-orc) and 11 classes (fighter, cleric, rogue, wizard, paladin, ranger, monk, barbarian, druid, bard, sorcerer), and provides suggestions as to how those elements can fit into the world. Feel free to use those as guidelines. Warlords are likely similar to fighters, warlocks to sorcerers, eladrin to elves, etc. I'll be happy to help you find a place for any distinctly 4e things you might want to play (dragonborn, shardmind, battleminds, etc.).

- You will be starting at level 2. Your party will have already completed a brief adventure for Brevoy, the nation that has commissioned your group for this task, thus earning some of their trust. I leave the details of that previous adventure to you.

- We will be using the standard 22 point buy.

- We will be using backgrounds for this campaign. Any PHB2-style background is acceptable. These are the ones that give you +2 to a skill, let you consider a skill a class skill, or give you a language. The primary disallowed backgrounds include the Scales of War and Forgotten Realms backgrounds, though there were some other weird ones in Dragon that also are not allowed if they don't fit the PHB2 style.

- I will be giving you Versatile Expertise (the new attack bonus feat from PHB3) for free at level 5. Don't take it before then.

- For gear, you will start with one level 2 item (assumed to have been gained in your unwritten first adventure) and 200 GP to spend on mundane items.

- In addition to the normal retraining of one item per level, I will also allow you to retrain an extra power or feat if the new item was released since your last level up. If you have something like a newly-released class feature that you want to swap, that can also be arranged. If at any point you aren't happy with your PC (character-wise or mechanically), let me know and we'll figure something out.

- Party composition is completely up to you folks, of course. A party that covers all four roles (defender, leader, striker, controller) will be easier on you and me, but I'll adapt if something's missing. The adventure path itself will emphasize both wilderness exploration (Nature, Perception, Endurance) and political intrigue (Diplomacy, Bluff, History), and of course have some dungeion crawling, so a well-rounded party on the skill front would also be beneficial.

I'd like to get started late April / early May. I know you'll need to decide on PC's, and will likely want to have PHB3 in the Character Builder to play with, plus the first part of the AP releases on March 30, and I'll need a little time to get enough converted to 4e to get started.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
« Last edit by Gary on Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:11 am. »
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Also, there will be some new folks joining Dead Goblins for this game, so if you could introduce yourselves, that'd be handy.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
Sounds fun! I'm not sure if you mean for only the "new folks" to introduce themselves, but just in case. I'm Viktor. I know Gary through Emily, with whom I work. I've been a 4th "Editionolic" since we started playing Scales of War here on deadgoblins. I did not have any prior tabletop dnd experience, only a general idea through computer RPG's.

I like the story premise of scouting unlawful lands and creating our own kingdom. We briefly IMed about it last week and I would be interested in playing a Stonefist monk. However, I don't have PHB3 yet (on it's way via snailazon still) so don't know about details yet regarding race, etc. I'm also curious about the telekinetic psion build. With either of those, I would want to create a bit of an Asian flair if that's okay.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 3164
I'm in. So far, leaning toward Runepriest, since it looks fairly awesome. =)
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Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
I was thinking for everyone to introduce themselves. But I'll go ahead and post a player roster, too. :)

* Emily - My wife. DM on Scales of War here, player in other games.
* Josh - College roommate. DM of Eberron here, player in other games, may not have time for this game till August.
* Jonathan - Emily's brother's best friend. DM-to-be of Forgotten Realms here, player in other games.
* Viktor - As he mentioned, co-worker of Emily. DM of Points of Light here, player in other games.

...and the two new players (I'll use their EN World screen names):

* covaithe - Judge, DM, and player on EN World's Living 4th Edition. I've played alongside him since Fall '08, and have Judged (shadowed/supervised) several games he's DMed.
* KenHood - DM and player on EN World's Living 4th Edition. Have not directly played with or DMed for him, but have Judged adventures he's played in since Fall '08, including one DMed by covaithe. :)
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
« Last edit by Gary on Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:20 am. »
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Viktor wrote
With either of those, I would want to create a bit of an Asian flair if that's okay.


Viktor, Asian flair is totally okay. :)

http://pathfinder.wikia.com/wiki/Tian_Xia

As I said, just about any flavor your could want is available in Golarion.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Member
Registered: Mar 2010
Posts: 105
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Hi, folks. I'm covaithe (Greg if you prefer real names; I'm not picky). As Gary said, I've been doing 4e stuff in the ENWorld forums for a while, on both sides of the table.
I don't yet have any specific character concepts just yet. I don't currently have an active controller character, so I'll be thinking about one of those. But I'm always willing to fill an empty role, if other people have strong preferences. And I'm always open to suggestions.
« Last edit by covaithe on Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:33 am. »
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
Hi Greg. If you want to play a controller, then I can stay away from psion. Once Jonathan begins his FR campaign here on deadgoblins, I'll have an active PC from each role type anyhow. It might be better for me to play a striker instead of us having two controllers in a party of five. In any case, I'm also happy to help fill any missing roles if necessary, although I've got some concrete ideas for a Stonefist drunk, err, monk already.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Thanks again for venturing over to this forum, cov. I'm very happy to have you and Ken joining us here, and I'm really looking forward to running this game for all of you.

And for those observant folks who notice covaithe is located in the UK, this means we'll never have a live session of Kingmaker. :)

All the folks in the Scales of War game here on Dead Goblins are in the Los Angeles area, covaithe, and we get together every few months to actually play live and roll real dice. Alas, not to be with this game, but players from all over is also the strength of PbP after all.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
« Last edit by Gary on Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:40 am. »
Member
Registered: Mar 2010
Posts: 105
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
I'm in the UK for the moment, yes, but I'm moving to Michigan in early May. Not that Michigan is a whole lot better than England as far as face to face games go, but three hours difference in time zones is easier to deal with than eight. I do expect a certain amount of disruption to my online presence from this move, but it shouldn't be completely cut off for longer than a handful of days.
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
That's cool. Are you from the UK or the US, Greg? Studying abroad or something? I've always read your posts with a British accent, which would be funny if you're actually from Detroit. :) You and Ken are the first players on Dead Goblins that no one on here already knew from meatspace. Everyone else so far has been someone at least one person knew face to face at some point. We're branching out!

/tangent ;)

In any case, no worries about brief announced absences from the board. What we usually do around here is nominate another player to run the PC during the interim to keep things moving, unless several players are all out at the same time, then we take a little break.

That reminds me, I will be using a couple time-related rules most games here on Dead Goblins use.

- If you post within 24 hours of your turn coming up, you get +1 on all d20 rolls. If you don't post within 72 hours of your turn coming up, I (or a designated player) take your turn for you, and the "someone acts for you" deadline goes to 24 hours. Announced absences are not a problem and don't affect this, of course.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Jul 2008
Posts: 5245
Welcome Greg. I've heard good things about you from Gary. It will be a bit strange to have folks on DeadGoblins who we only know by reputation. The idea behind this board was to enable hybrid play by post/live games. It has worked really well, but we don't have a rule that a member needs to be vetted in person before joining. However, it is clear that the quality of the game is directly related to the quality of the players. Vetting can be a good thing; consider yourself in good company.

I am quite looking forward to this new campaign. Between a solid DM, interesting plot premise and a little fresh blood, I think this Kingmaker game has excellent potential. If anyone can tweek the Paizo adventure to make it fit 4e, Gary can do it.

I'm thinking of playing a cleric, not sure what race yet. My MO would be to go out and convert the heathens.
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Dungeon Master - Scales of War
Edeya - Githzerai Seeker - Points of Light
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Indeed, though none of us have met Greg or Ken in real life, I've PbP'ed with them for a year and a half, which is a pretty good vetting of the quality of their PbP play and commitment. :)
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Member
Registered: Mar 2010
Posts: 12
All right... We've got 6 players. Roles taken are controller and leader. Since we're going to rule kingdoms (or have leadership roles), do we need characters with decent charisma and *cough* sanity? I wouldn't mind playing a homicidal defender or a completely mad cleric.
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Welcome to Dead Goblins, Ken!

The 6th player, Josh, won't be able to join until August, so until then that leaves us with a standard-sized 5 person party.

As for sanity and homicidal tendancies, well...

1 - You're adventurers. How many completely sane adventurers are there? And how many are adverse to homicide?

2 - When has being insane or homicidal ever precluded being in charge of a country?

I would recommend someone be strong in the diplomatic, friendly social skills. But hey, if you want to rule your lands solely by the sword, it's your kingdom. :)
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
For point of reference, Brevoy - the country commissioning your PC's for this mission - was forged from two rival kingdoms that were conquered by a barbarian who had somehow gotten control of some red dragons. If you guys can convince dragons to help you, that works, too. :)

http://pathfinder.wikia.com/wiki/Brevoy
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Member
Registered: Mar 2010
Posts: 12
Okay, how about a manipulative cleric... ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ====== Ransom, level 2 Kalashtar, Cleric Build: Devoted Cleric Kalashtar: Diplomacy Bonus Background: Beggar (+2 to Bluff) FINAL ABILITY SCORES Str 8, Con 10, Dex 13, Int 11, Wis 18, Cha 18. STARTING ABILITY SCORES Str 8, Con 10, Dex 13, Int 11, Wis 16, Cha 16. AC: 17 Fort: 11 Reflex: 12 Will: 17 HP: 27 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 6 TRAINED SKILLS Religion +6, Heal +10, Insight +12, Diplomacy +12, Bluff +12 UNTRAINED SKILLS Acrobatics +1, Arcana +1, Dungeoneering +5, Endurance, History +1, Intimidate +5, Nature +5, Perception +5, Stealth +1, Streetwise +5, Thievery +1, Athletics -1 FEATS Cleric: Ritual Caster Level 1: Bardic Dilettante Level 2: Group Mindlink POWERS Channel Divinity: Healer's Mercy Cleric at-will 1: Astral Seal Cleric at-will 1: Gaze of Defiance Cleric encounter 1: Exacting Utterance Cleric daily 1: Beacon of Hope Cleric utility 2: Cure Light Wounds ITEMS Ritual Book, Chainmail, Symbol of Life +1, Backpack (empty), Bedroll, Belt Pouch (empty), Flint and Steel, Silk Rope (50 ft.), Sunrod (2), Trail Rations (10), Waterskin, Residuum (Any) (77), Spear RITUALS Gentle Repose, Glib Limerick, Spirit Fetch ====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Ah, yeah, Ken. You'll want to turn off HTML (there's a check box) to have your post space correctly. The HTML is needed to support our hidden stat blocks, but makes other posts look a bit funny. Dead Goblins runs on free board software, not the fancy stuff they buy at EN World. :)

That cleric would certainly do quite well on the social skills and healing, that's for sure.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
So I plugged your cleric into the Character Builder, Ken, and MY GOD THAT'S A LOT OF HEALING!!!1!11!0! :D

Seriously, I'm going to have to try really hard to kill your PC's with Ransom in the group. :P
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 3164
Don't forget about the second leader in the runepriest, though I can go much more weapon heavy damage buffing on that one now.
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Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Runepriests are really light on healing and much heavier on bonus granting (and are melee), and Ken's cleric is about 99.3% healing focused (and ranged), so having those two in the group would likely work just fine and not overlap much if at all.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
I think the only non-healing power with Ransom is Gaze of Defiance. Yeah that is a lot of healing. I was also looking at the cleric powers and noticed that errata changed some of them. The previous level 2 utility enconter power "life transference" is now a daily power, which is too bad. Another nice one to consider is "healer's gift", which does what cure light wounds does, but is an encounter utility. The catch is that you can only use it on dying creatures.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
Moderator
Registered: Jul 2008
Posts: 5245
Hey, I had dibs on a cleric! Well, I suppose I could still go convert heathens as a Paladin...
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Dungeon Master - Scales of War
Edeya - Githzerai Seeker - Points of Light

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