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Swordmages and versatile weapons

Moderators: Josh, Michael Doss.

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Registered: Sep 2009
Posts: 1238
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Sentinel - Warforged Shielding Swordmage (Eberron)
Allena Walmond - Human Paladin of Amaunator (Forgotten Realms)
Variel - Elf Beastmaster Ranger
Thaelan the Clanless - Dwarf Protector Spirit Shaman (Dungeon Delve 4)
« Last edit by nmathew on Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:40 pm. »
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Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
LOL! I got all the way to the bottom! Hurrah!

Everything else aside, I think we should allow you to do your hand-switching thing, if only for the research effort you put into this. :D

Seriously though, I see no problem with hand-switching. After all, if PC's wanted to switch a weapon from their right hand to left hand (for fun) it would also be a free action. It just means Josh might have to remember Sentinel's lower AC when he attacks and an enemy happens to counter-attack with an immediate. I also think Josh not allowing the +1 for Lan's triggered basic melee is reasonable, since Sentinel intended to be in a more defensive one-hand wielding posture.

Cinematically I think it's also totally fine. Kind of like he's grabbing the weapon with both hands just as he begins swinging, then afterwards crouches and puts the longsword into a horizontal parry position with one hand.

You're the first player here who's actually using versatility for something, so I say go with it.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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Registered: Sep 2009
Posts: 1238
Oh, one more thing. I do like the cinematic of Sentinel dropping his defenses temporarily for a sudden, slightly more brutal attack.
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Sentinel - Warforged Shielding Swordmage (Eberron)
Allena Walmond - Human Paladin of Amaunator (Forgotten Realms)
Variel - Elf Beastmaster Ranger
Thaelan the Clanless - Dwarf Protector Spirit Shaman (Dungeon Delve 4)
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 4627
I am definitely open to not requiring the minor action to go 2 handed. It's something that would have a small effect on your character at early levels (since your major minor action use is to apply an Aegis, which is not every round...hopefully). At higher levels as you gain more minor action abilities, there would definitely be a reduced use in going 2 handed, although, the extra 1 damage as you go up becomes less and less important (speaking of which, wouldn't the +1 also multiply when you do 3[W] damage?).

Anyways, my biggest beef with it is really during OAs and Immediate Reactions, since it is rare that the AC loss will actually be applied (and in fact, what would the order be if you got an OA, switched to 2H, hit, switched to 1H AND something got to attack you in response to the OA...would they hit before you switched back? It obviously depends on the power and if it is a reaction or interrupt, but, since free actions can be used anytime, what is to say that you don't just say that you let go for a moment and then grab it back in the middle of your attack?).

So, here is what I think might be a ruling: If you are wielding 1H at the end of your turn, you are wielding 1H continuously until the start of your next turn. Same with 2H. This allows you to switch as much as you want during your turn, but locks you into whatever you were while others go.

I also thought of another possibility just now: If you wield 1H for your entire turn, you are considered to be wielding 1H until the end of your next turn. Which means, if you do a turn without the hand origami, you can then do an entire round with it.

Another: You can put two hands on your sword or take one hand off your sword once per round. This makes it like SA, where if you happen to not attack on your turn and are given an attack, you can still get your +1 to damage.

Thoughts, anyone?
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Mal Geminous - Tiefling Warlord, Scales of War
Corydimbiddle - Gnome Artificer, Points of Light
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Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Josh wrote
So, here is what I think might be a ruling: If you are wielding 1H at the end of your turn, you are wielding 1H continuously until the start of your next turn. Same with 2H. This allows you to switch as much as you want during your turn, but locks you into whatever you were while others go.


This is how I'd rule it. Do whatever hand jive you want on your turn, but if you have the sword in one hand at the end of your turn, you don't get the +1 damage on any attacks (OA's, granted attacks, etc.) taken during other characters' turns. Plus, any interrupts, reactions, or OA's against Sentinel during his swing would face only his +1 warding, not his +3 warding.

Josh, the +1 for using a versatile weapon in two hands does not get multiplied when using multi-W powers. It remains +1. This is why Nathan's rock-paper-scissoring is not quite as effective as just using a bastard sword in one hand, especially as we level up and he gets more multi-W powers.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Sep 2009
Posts: 1238
Josh wrote
So, here is what I think might be a ruling: If you are wielding 1H at the end of your turn, you are wielding 1H continuously until the start of your next turn. Same with 2H. This allows you to switch as much as you want during your turn, but locks you into whatever you were while others go.
I'm happy with that one, but it's probably the best case scenario for my character. It also adds a bit of fun gamesmanship to the game. Do I think this monster can pwn me in a retaliatory strike, or should I go for broke so to say? I'm completely with Gary on how the +1 to attack works. It says I get to add 1 to my damage roll. I'd take that to mean it's [W]+1 or 26[W]+1.
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Sentinel - Warforged Shielding Swordmage (Eberron)
Allena Walmond - Human Paladin of Amaunator (Forgotten Realms)
Variel - Elf Beastmaster Ranger
Thaelan the Clanless - Dwarf Protector Spirit Shaman (Dungeon Delve 4)
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Wow, I wish *I* had a 26(W) power! ;)
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign

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