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Eberron Leveling and Item Discussions

Moderators: Josh, Michael Doss.

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Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
Well, I've stayed out of this entire discussion until now because I've had my own "coming to terms" experience with essentials in PoL. Rather it just took me time to look up and accept the new hunter and knight character styles. In the end, I decided not to nerf anything with the hunter class and let Emily choose which class she wants to play. I have not however looked at the thief so still won't comment.

Gary, based on the descriptions in your last post I'm more intrigued to see the executioner in play, but that's just because of the novelty of the near-death thing and especially poisons. It's just like I'm intrigued by the novelty of Jon playing a cavalier with summonable mounts in Scales to see that mechanic in play.

From a Lan perspective my impression though is that the thief would be better for granting him MBA's with Ire Strike and if he's more maneuverable it'll be easier to flank with him.

By your descriptions, is it fair to assume that the thief does more damage and the executioner is more versatile?

Ultimately, whichever one you'll have more fun with, so either is fine by me.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Viktor wrote
By your descriptions, is it fair to assume that the thief does more damage and the executioner is more versatile?


Leaving aside the thief's Backstab multiple-per-encounter power and the executioner's once-per-encounter-but-only-used-on-a-hit Assassin's Strike power and looking only at MBA's:

- As a thief, Khav does +11 vs AC at level 4 (includes expertise but not 24H or CA) and 1d6+6 (9.5 average, max 12) damage with his MBA. If he has Combat Advantage, that's up to +13 vs AC for 1d6 + 6 + 2d8 (assuming Backstabber feat) + 1 (Light Blade Expertise grants +1/tier damage with CA), which is an average of 19 damage (max 29).

- As an executioner, Khav does +10 vs AC at level 4 (includes expertise but not 24H or CA) and 1d8+4+1d8 (12.5 average, max 20) damage with his MBA.

So, with CA, the thief does a lot more damage. The executioner doesn't need CA, but is more consistent.

As a thief, Khav is great at generating CA for himself on his own turn, but to attack with CA on someone else's turn he needs combat advantage from something else like flanking, prone, or dazed.

As far as versatile, the executioner is more versatile in melee, but the thief can be more effective at range when needed (Abmush Trick and tossing daggers is better than the Red Scales executioner build I'm can do at range), which is another kind of versatility.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
Thanks Gary.

Again from Lan's Ire Strike perspective, the main thing is to hit for some damage and to make the enemy vulnerable 2 (no augment) or vulnerable 6 (augment 2), therefore I would say thief. On the other hand, versatility is always nice.

Whichever you prefer. Nathan made some good points about the "feel" you were going for with Khav.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
Member
Registered: Sep 2010
Posts: 378
Here is Geen @ 4th level : http://iplay4e.appspot.com/characters/agdpcGxheTRlchQLEgtDaGFyYWN0ZXJWMhjflekDDA

It is a public character, so you can use the drop-down menu and download the .dnd4e file.

Thx for a great game so far...!
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
I think I'm going to stick with my thief build. I'll try to get it all updated tonight.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 4627
Thanks. So, your changes were to have +1 to Dex and Wisdom and add the Superior Reflexes feat? Also, you should have Shadow Hunter's Hide +2, not +1.
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Mal Geminous - Tiefling Warlord, Scales of War
Corydimbiddle - Gnome Artificer, Points of Light
« Last edit by Josh on Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:16 pm. »
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 3164
Josh, if you have it readily available, could you email me a pdf of the new Kurvilis? For some reason, printing to pdf from the char builder crashes my computer 4 out of 5 times.
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Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Joanthan, what PDF maker are you using? I use CutePDF and it works well, but when you send the character sheet to print, you pretty much have to leave the computer alone for a few minutes as the 8 MB file hits your printer spooler, since the new CB prints such huge files.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 3164
I use cutePDF as well. I will try again, but maybe my computer is just older and slower.
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Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 4627
I don't have the new CB, so I don't have a PDF of level 4 Kurvilis.
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Mal Geminous - Tiefling Warlord, Scales of War
Corydimbiddle - Gnome Artificer, Points of Light
Member
Registered: Sep 2010
Posts: 378
Josh wrote
Thanks. So, your changes were to have +1 to Dex and Wisdom and add the Superior Reflexes feat? Also, you should have Shadow Hunter's Hide +2, not +1.
Updated. You may re-download.
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 4627
Thanks. I don't think it fully worked (is that using the online CB?) but I replaced Superior Reflexes with Lightning Reflexes on the old CB. At least the stats end up the same that way.

The same thing happened with Jon's new CB file. I was able to make a comparable old CB version of the character for the level 4 update.

Oh, and one more thing, can you guys post your level 4 drop down menus?
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Mal Geminous - Tiefling Warlord, Scales of War
Corydimbiddle - Gnome Artificer, Points of Light
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Here's my new stat block. My new PDF is linked within the stat block. I'm taking Unbalancing Trick as my new trick and Backstabber (bumps Sneak Attack from 2d6 to 2d8) as my feat.

User posted image

Unbalancing Trick should help others get CA, and if Lan goes after me and before the enemy I knock prone, Lan can give Khav an Ire Strike free attack with CA and SA before the enemy can stand up.

  •  Khavak'aashta
    • Male Half-Orc Rogue-Thief (Assassin) 4
    • Full Character Sheet
    • Passive Perception: 19, Passive Insight: 14, Senses: Low-Light Vision
    • AC: 19, Fort: 17, Reflex: 20, Will: 16 - Speed: 6
    • HP: 40/40, Bloodied: 20, Surge Value: 10, Surges left: 8/8
    • Action Points: 1
    • Resists: 5 Necrotic, 5 Poison

    • Half-Orc Resiliance (Race): Gain 5 temp HP first time bloodied in an encounter.
    • Swift Charge (Race): +2 speed when charging.
    • First Strike (Class): At the start of an encounter, gain combat advantage against foes who have not yet acted.
    • Sneak Attack (Class): Once per turn, deal 2d8 (Backstabber feat) bonus damage with combat advantage when using a crossbow, light blade, short bow, or sling.
    • Skill Mastery (Class): Gain additional trained skill, and during a skill challenge, a natural 20 automatically succeeds and counts as an additional success.
    • Light Blade Expertise (Feat): +1/tier to hit with light blades, and +1/tier damage with combat advantage with light blades.

    • Powers
    • -Ambush Trick
    • -Tumbling Trick
    • -Unbalancing Trick
    • -Backstab 1 / 2
    • -Furious Assault
    • -Half-Orc Resilience
    • -Second Wind
    • -Shadow Step
    • -Sudden Leap

    • Items
    • -Final Sleep Ki Focus +1 - Properties - +1d12 Crit. Right after you reduce an enemy to 0 hit points with an implement attack or a weapon attack using this ki focus, you can shift 1 square as a free action.
    • -Deathcut Leather Armor +1 - Properties - Resist 5 necrotic. Resist 5 poison.
    • -Deathcut Leather Armor +1 - Power (Daily Necrotic): Immediate Reaction. You can use this power when an enemy hits you with a melee attack. Deal 1d10 necrotic damage to that enemy.
    • -Amulet of Protection +2
_______________
Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Sep 2009
Posts: 1238
Viktor and Josh, when I rebuilt Sentinel with the proper attribute bonuses, as opposed to entering them by hand, I learned I had made an error. I shorted Sentinel 2 points, so his Dex is higher than it was previously. Yes, I currently have two pure dumpstats with moderate ability scores. I hope I enjoy arcane reach in 3 years. On the plus side, my native initiative mod if 4.

  •  Sentinel Click for character sheet (PDF)
    • Warforged Swordmage 4
    • Passive Perception: 13, Passive Insight: 13
    • AC:23, Fort:15, Reflex:16, Will:16 - Speed:6
    • HP:50/50, Bloodied:25, Surge Value:112, Surges left:11/11
    • Action Points: 1, Second Wind: not used
    •  
    • Powers
      • Aegis of Shielding (arcane) (Minor, Close Burst 2)
      • Booming Blade (arcane, thunder, weapon) (Standard, Melee 1)
      • Sword Burst (arcane, force, implement) (Standard, Close Burst 1)
      • Second Wind (Standard)
      • Warforged Resolve (Minor)
      • Sword of Sigils (arcane, force, weapon) (Standard; Close Burst 1)
      • Dimensional Warp (arcane, teleportation) (Minor; Close Burst 3)
      • Dimensional Vortex (arcane, teleportation, impliment) (Imm Reac; Range 10)
      • Dimensional Thunder (arcane, teleportation, thunder, weapon) (Standard; Melee-Special)
      • Ashurta's Blade Blade becomes broadsword, dagger, longsword, shuriken, or shortsword(minor) Target is dazed until EoNT, if abberrant creature, restrained andcannot teleport until EoNT (Free; Trigger on hit)
       
    • Items
      • Ashurta's Blade +2 weapon, +2d6 on a crit, +2d10 crit against aberrant creatures, get +1 item bonus to all defenses agaisnt atacks of aberrant creatures
      • Runic Leather Armor +1 gain enhancement bonus to arcane checks, when using second wind, add enh. bonus to damage rolls with arcane attack powers until end of next turn
      • Longsword
      • Backpack
      • Climber's Kit (grappling hook, small hammer, 10 pitons)
      • Bedroll
      • Belt Pouch
      • Candle (7)
      • Flask
      • Flint and Steel
      • Hempen Rope (50ft)
      • Everburning Torch
       
    • Abilities
      • Languages Common
      • Living Construct No need to eat, drink, breathe, or sleep.
      • Unsleeping Watcher I do not sleep. I need 4 hours of inactivity, during which I am fully aware of my surroundings.
      • Warforged Mind +1 racial bonus to my Will
      • Warforged Resilience +2 racial bonus to saving throws against ongoing damage
      • Warforge Resolve</li>
      • Sword Bond
      • Aegis of Shielding
      • Swordmage Warding +1 to AC or +3 to AC when wiedling blade in one hand
       
    • Skills
      • Acrobatics +4
      • Arcana +12
      • Athletics +7
      • Bluff +1
      • Diplomacy +1
      • Dungeoneering +3
      • Endurance +7
      • Heal +3
      • History +11
      • Insight +3
      • Intimidate +3
      • Nature +3
      • Perception +3
      • Religion +11
      • Stealth +4
      • Streetwise +1
      • Thievery +4
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Sentinel - Warforged Shielding Swordmage (Eberron)
Allena Walmond - Human Paladin of Amaunator (Forgotten Realms)
Variel - Elf Beastmaster Ranger
Thaelan the Clanless - Dwarf Protector Spirit Shaman (Dungeon Delve 4)
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
Are you saying that Lan is now by far the slowest starter? :?

I'll update the group initiative list accordingly.

Gary, unbalancing trick looks great for both Khav getting ire strike with SA and for Lan to have CA from reach.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 4627
So, your starting ability scores are Str 10, Con 14, Dex 14, Int 16, Wis 13, Cha 8, and Con and Int have both been bumped 3?
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Mal Geminous - Tiefling Warlord, Scales of War
Corydimbiddle - Gnome Artificer, Points of Light
Moderator
Registered: Sep 2009
Posts: 1238
That appears to be correct., Josh. Racial bonuses +2 to int and con, and level 4 boost to them as well.
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Sentinel - Warforged Shielding Swordmage (Eberron)
Allena Walmond - Human Paladin of Amaunator (Forgotten Realms)
Variel - Elf Beastmaster Ranger
Thaelan the Clanless - Dwarf Protector Spirit Shaman (Dungeon Delve 4)
Member
Registered: Sep 2010
Posts: 378
I used the online chr builder for Geen, so when you download the file, just import into your online CB. Should work w/ no probs.
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
Here's the final statblock, with Sentinel's corrected initiative, and new google docs link. Josh, I just emailed you the level 4 pdf and dnd4e files, both from the offiline CB.

User posted image

  • Lan
    • Kalashtar Enlightened Ardent, Level 4
    • Passive Perception: 15, Passive Insight: 22
    • AC: 18 Fort: 16 Reflex: 13 Will: 19 Speed: 5/6, Initiative: +4 (base 2 +2 from Gestalt Anchor)
    • HP: 41, Bloodied: 20, Surge Value: 10, Surges: 9/9
    • Dual Soul: save rolls vs dazed or dominated at start of turn
    • Telepathy: two-way communication, range 5
    • Mantle of Clarity: allies in range 5, +2 perception/insight, +3 def (WIS mod) vs. OA
    • Axe Expertise: +1/+2/+3 attack per tier, can re-roll one damage die which results in a 1, but must use the second roll
    • Bolstering Mantle: when Lan spends a healing surge, an ally within his mantle (5 spaces) can either gain 5 temp hp or make a saving throw
    • Gestalt Anchor: +2 initiative all, when using last power point, allies within 5 gain +2 defenses UENT Lan
    • Martyr's Surge: +1d6 hp to Ardent Surge when Lan is bloodied
    • Powers
    • Energizing Strike (no augment grants 7 thp)
    • Impatient Strike (shift 1 before attack)
    • Ire Strike (melee 1)
    • Ardent Alacrity (free, if bloodied, burst 5, allies shift 1 or move 1/2 speed)
    • Amulet of Life +1 (when spending a healing surge, you can spend a second healing surge)
    • Ardent Surge 1 (minor, surge +1d6 and +1 defenses)
    • Ardent Surge 2 (minor, surge +1d6 and +1 defenses)
    • Augment Points: 1 2 3 4
    • Bastion of Mental Clarity (imm int, att vs my will, burst 5, +4 will all)
    • Blood Fury Halberd +1 (minor, count as bloodied for all purposes UENT)
    • Dimension Swap (teleport swap places with ally, burst 5)
    • Second Wind
    • Mental Turmoil
    • Items
    • Camouflaged Clothing (+1 stealth to hide)
    • Footpads (+1 stealth to sneak)
    • Disguise Kit (+2 bluff for passing off disquises)
    • Inquisitive's Kit (+2 perception to search an area for something specific)
    • Climber's Kit (+2 athletics for climbing)
    • Chainmail
    • Hand Crossbow
    • Crowbar
    • Fine Clothing
    • Fake Identification and Travel Papers
    • Silver goblin necklace, given to him by Govaan
    • Amulet of Life +1
    • Blood Fury Halberd +1 (+1d8 crit, +1d12 crit when bloodied)
    • Healing Potion
    • Skills
    • Bluff, Diplomacy, Insight, Streetwise: 12
    • Intimidate: 6
    • Dungeoneering, Heal, Nature, Perception, Stealth: 5
    • Endurance: 3
    • Acrobatics, Athletics, Thievery: 1
    • Arcana, History, Religion: 1

    Group Initiative: Lan-4, Sentinel-6, Geen-8, Kurvilis-9, Khav-11
    (allies within 5 gain +2 perception/+2 insight, allies and Lan gain +3 defense vs OA)
    _______________
    Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 4627
I actually don't have the online CB and don't intend to get it anytime soon. It is mostly ok, because I can approximate powers and feats on the old CB, but if there is specific information (like how Superior Reflexes differs from the older feat Lightning Reflexes), then it is useful for you to summarize that for me here. I mostly use the Combat Manager anyways, and for that I use pretty much what I put on the wiki pages. At that point I only look at the character sheets for clarification.
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Mal Geminous - Tiefling Warlord, Scales of War
Corydimbiddle - Gnome Artificer, Points of Light
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
Josh wrote
I actually don't have the online CB...


Yeah, I know, which is why I've been using the offline CB for Lan and sent you those files.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
Member
Registered: Sep 2010
Posts: 378
Superior Reflexes

Prerequisite: Dexterity 15 or Intelligence 15
Benefit: You gain a +2 feat bonus to Reflex. This bonus increases to +3 at 11th level and +4 at 21st level.
You also gain combat advantage against all enemies during your first turn in an encounter.
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
I don't think we have a group name yet, but in keeping with our cover story, how about the Historians. :)

Josh, could you edit the titles to this thread and the strategy thread to include "Eberron" just so it's easier to tell what's what on e-mail alerts? Thanks!
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
I say The Keepers.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
Moderator
Registered: Sep 2009
Posts: 1238
I'm partial to Sentinel's Sentinels 8)
_______________
Sentinel - Warforged Shielding Swordmage (Eberron)
Allena Walmond - Human Paladin of Amaunator (Forgotten Realms)
Variel - Elf Beastmaster Ranger
Thaelan the Clanless - Dwarf Protector Spirit Shaman (Dungeon Delve 4)

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