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Introduction and Character Creation

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Registered: Dec 2009
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Location: california
so, I have some ideas for a back story for my character, but I'm not so familiar with FR, so I don't know if I can do it. Also, is their a program to use to make characters?
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Registered: Jun 2009
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Sam, there is the character builder, which is subscription based. I would be happy to do the character with you, like last time, or just call my cell and I can give you the subscription info to download the CB.

For backstory, what were you thinking of? The odds are that we can make your backstory fit into FR. I am not so concerned with where everyone comes from; that is your gig for roleplaying purposes, so we can probably make whatever you want work somehow.
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Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
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The only background thing I would like all of you to figure out is why exactly you are in Loudwater. Depending on the makeup of the party, I might work with one or two of you on that in order to effectively achieve my hook for the opening scenes, but for the rest of you, it can be relatively anything.

I will be posting some background on Loudwater in the next week or so.
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Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
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Registered: Sep 2009
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Yeah, the FR are a pretty diverse place. It's not the most realistic political setting, but it has a bit of something for everyone and it could accomodate a lot of playstyles and campaign flavors. Or it did before the spell plague. I'm still a bit fuzzy on that event.

It looks like The North/The Moonlands/The Silver Marches/Luruar (whatever they are calling it now) were left more or less alone, and I think I'll pull my paladin from there. It also makes for a much shorter walk to Loudwater than most other regions :) Do FR paladins needs to come from specific training organizations, or can they be freelance? The Knights of Silver seem like a solid place to get military training, assuming they still exist. Perhaps they were absorbed by Luruar's military forces?

Gary, I like the build, and Spirit of the Tempest takes the Shaman's weakest leader role (granting saving throws) and makes it an at-will that works on a miss? I guess it being a melee power and not a spirit melee power balances things out. Going with chainmail and that at-will is a good choice/combo. You may want to look at the Sudden Call feat. After the latest errata, it lets your spirit be omnipresent within 20 on your turn. I think it was a careless word choice and unintentional, but we probably won't know until May.

Jon, WoTC put out some very nice fluff for the surrounding areas we'll be starting in. They were called Elminster's ecologies. The appendixes were specifically about the Highmoor, the Hill of Lost Souls, the Battle of Bones, and the Serpent Hills but I seem to remember nice bits about the surrounding countryside as well. WoTC has them available for free download here.
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Sentinel - Warforged Shielding Swordmage (Eberron)
Allena Walmond - Human Paladin of Amaunator (Forgotten Realms)
Variel - Elf Beastmaster Ranger
Thaelan the Clanless - Dwarf Protector Spirit Shaman (Dungeon Delve 4)
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Thanks, Nathan. Between chain and the high Con, I'm not worried about wading into melee myself to use Spirit of the Tempest or to help flank. Sudden call looks useful. The errata already changed it so that you can unsummon/resummon your spirit with one minor action, so that's helpful.

I love that both of my at-wills have really useful effects, hit or miss.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
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Registered: Sep 2009
Posts: 1238
That's a good point about being able to dismiss/resummon with a minor now. Hmm, how many other classes picked up the equivalent of a free feat in the errata? I guess that technically it's weaker as you need to use a minor to summon a "popped" SC, but that's rare in my experience.

EDIT:

While I'm at it, the PHB3 feat Versatile Expertise will finally solve the feat tax on folks who use implements and weapons. :P Now we just need to convince Jon to give it to us for free.
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Sentinel - Warforged Shielding Swordmage (Eberron)
Allena Walmond - Human Paladin of Amaunator (Forgotten Realms)
Variel - Elf Beastmaster Ranger
Thaelan the Clanless - Dwarf Protector Spirit Shaman (Dungeon Delve 4)
« Last edit by nmathew on Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:52 am. »
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Don't read too much into the Spellplague. For our purposes, it was a thing entirely in the past (meaning spellscars are out), that warped some of the geography of the Realms. Its effect on magic has ended. The only remnants of the Spellplague are to be found in some weird land features scattered around, such as glowing rocks or trees, floating islands in the air, etc... I will be using it only for flavor. I have not yet decided if I will be encorporating the new continent that the Spellplague whisked in. Would it help if I posted the history of the Spellplague and the geographic changes it made from the Realms you may have played in before?

I have no problem with a more-or-less freelance paladin, but obviously you will still belong to the Chuch of whichever god you choose to serve, and your goals will at least somewhat align with the goals of the church and god. I have not yet made too many decisions about what still exists in places outside of Loudwater's immediacy, so if the Knights of Silver fit into your backstory, they still exist.

Think of FR as just the setting for any campaign. Yes, we will be utilizing some of the geography and personalities, but really, it won't be too much different from a normal campaign. Unlike Eberron, which has a totally different feel to it, FR, like Nathan said, has a little for everyone, and is a fairly typical DnD setting. Moreover, its HUGE. The odds of the party seeing anything close to half of the Realms is minimal. We could run a whole 30 level capaign within a few weeks' walk of Loudwater. We won't, of course, because that would be boring.

I guess the moral of the story is don't read too much into the "new" FR. Decide who you want your character to be, and we will make that fit. The odds of us getting to wherever your characters are from are slim, so it won't be a risk of clashing with my story. :)
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Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
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Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 3164
What does Versatile Expertise do? +1 to everything?
_______________
Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
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Hide Armor Expertise got nerfed in the update, which is why I'm wearing chain. So I don't feel bad about the spirit summoning boost. :)
_______________
Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
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Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Jonathan Berg wrote
What does Versatile Expertise do? +1 to everything?


Choose a weapon group and an implement group. You get +1 to both. Good for swordmages (heavy blade for both) and paladins, cleric, and avengers (weapon of choice and holy symbol).
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 3164
That wouldn't give swordmages +2, would it?

Assuming not, I am totally fine with that, since the plan was to allow a free expertise feat anyway (2 for those classes that needed it).
_______________
Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
It would not stack. Swordmage powers use the blade as either a weapon or an implement, but never both at the same time.

I've been building my PC's assuming we'd get a free expertise feat, but not actually taking it, since you hadn't said officially. When I post my final sheet, it'll include whatever you give us on that front.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 3164
Ok. Think of this as official then. Free expertise feat for all! And now it sounds like I can just make that one free, since this one would cover those who previously needed two.
_______________
Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Yup. There's not really a reason for anyone to take just Weapon Expertise or just Implement Expertise anymore. Even Emily's rogue would take Versatile Expertise (light blades for both) in case she ever multi'd sorcerer or something.
_______________
Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Sep 2009
Posts: 1238
Jonathan Berg wrote
Would it help if I posted the history of the Spellplague and the geographic changes it made from the Realms you may have played in before?
If it's just a copy/paste for you, sure. Otherwise, I'll save you the work and do a bit of hunting/reading on the web.
Jonathan Berg wrote
We could run a whole 30 level capaign within a few weeks' walk of Loudwater. We won't, of course, because that would be boring.
I don't know about that. The fluff I linked to for the region would easily flesh out a massive 30 level campaign with several settings ;)

The new feat "solves" several problems and should have been there from the start. They also changed all the expertise bonuses from untyped ot feat, so that has messed with the utility of a few other feats. gnome phantasmist, for instance, is much less useful now.
_______________
Sentinel - Warforged Shielding Swordmage (Eberron)
Allena Walmond - Human Paladin of Amaunator (Forgotten Realms)
Variel - Elf Beastmaster Ranger
Thaelan the Clanless - Dwarf Protector Spirit Shaman (Dungeon Delve 4)
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Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Wizards has shown an almost Blizzard-like willingness to update and tweak the rules in 4e. While I appreciate they're trying to make a better game, my books don't automatically revise after each "patch." :) At least the character builder and compendium are always up to date.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
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Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 3164
I will do a brief history. If you want something more in depth, might want to look that up yourself. However, I will post that, since others might also be interested.
_______________
Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
Versatile Expertise does make multiple implement/weapon dependency less of a problem. It seems that, starting with my campaign, we've been kind of granting that anyhow by allowing house rule expertise feats. I actually went further by allowing two expertise feats for all players even if they want to choose two weapon expertise feats. I find that every PC practically needs expertise to balance against increasing enemy difficulties, but it's been that players need to choose one weapon group only at character creation. Allowing two house feats also allows the non-implement oriented players (e.g. fighters) to diversify their weapon choices. In fact, I think the new fighter build in martial power 2 even has powers that assume you're weapon swapping for different bonus effects. Then there's all those powers that say something like "if you're wielding an axe, gain X".
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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True about the books. At least the errata can be cut out and pasted into the books...
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Sentinel - Warforged Shielding Swordmage (Eberron)
Allena Walmond - Human Paladin of Amaunator (Forgotten Realms)
Variel - Elf Beastmaster Ranger
Thaelan the Clanless - Dwarf Protector Spirit Shaman (Dungeon Delve 4)
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 3164
Are they planning on making an implement version of weapon focus?
_______________
Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
Moderator
Registered: Sep 2009
Posts: 1238
Hmm. Viktor, I think that the idea of granting two items of expertise is a good one. You're right about the math scaling. I'm no expert in 4e, but from what I've read, the expertise feats help the PCs stay with the monsters at higher levels. requiring two feats to be a viable axe/sword dual wielder kind of narrows your build options.
_______________
Sentinel - Warforged Shielding Swordmage (Eberron)
Allena Walmond - Human Paladin of Amaunator (Forgotten Realms)
Variel - Elf Beastmaster Ranger
Thaelan the Clanless - Dwarf Protector Spirit Shaman (Dungeon Delve 4)
Moderator
Registered: Sep 2009
Posts: 1238
Jonathan Berg wrote
Are they planning on making an implement version of weapon focus?
They already have one, if you're a staff wizard, dagger sorc, or swordmage. :? Outside of that, I don't know.
_______________
Sentinel - Warforged Shielding Swordmage (Eberron)
Allena Walmond - Human Paladin of Amaunator (Forgotten Realms)
Variel - Elf Beastmaster Ranger
Thaelan the Clanless - Dwarf Protector Spirit Shaman (Dungeon Delve 4)
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 3164
Ok. I can buy that. I will allow expertise in 2 things (whether 1 or 2 feats). It can be 2 weapons, 2 implements, or 1 of each.
_______________
Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
It also narrows your power choices within your class, because if you're a heavy blade wielder you will automatically not look twice at powers that have a bonus rider "if wielding an axe, add CON mod to damage". Of course, it also limits your wishlist weapon choices, but that's not really the main point.

So far, with my PoL group, they're kicking major butt, but it's not really because they all have expertise in any weapon/implement they wield. Yes, it makes a difference, but ultimately luck determine a lot. The main reason they're kicking butt is that we're very familiar with 4E now and their tactics are much better than when our group started playing Scales of War. For encounters versus level 1 and probably level 2 players, I think the PC's have an edge with the extra expertise, possibly even up to level 4. However, looking at enemy encounters and enemy stats coming up in my compaign from levels 4-11, the extra +1 to hit is balancing or still not good enough. The tide essentially shifts and will likely shift back in favor of the PC's at level 11 for a while.

Anyway, just my thoughts. I'm all for allowing diversity in PC creation and the other major upside of a house expertise feat (or two) is that it allows another slot for more interesting, tactical, or fun feats instead.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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nmathew wrote
Jonathan Berg wrote
Are they planning on making an implement version of weapon focus?


They already have one, if you're a staff wizard, dagger sorc, or swordmage. :? Outside of that, I don't know.


Not that I'm aware of. There are already the damage type boosting feats like Astral Fire and Dark Fury. But no nlanket implement damage boost feats unless, as Nathan points out, the implement is also a weapon.

PHB3 will have superior implements , though so implement users will get a boost from that.
_______________
Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign

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