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Introduction

Moderators: Josh, Michael Doss.

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Registered: Oct 2008
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Thanks Josh, I'll have a look later today.

I am leaning towards using falchion (two handed, 2d4, high crit) since it will do more damage on average than greatsword and high crit just adds to that. Want to carry a reach weapon around to switch to for versatility. This will likely be glaive if I go with heavy blade weapon expertise (since halberd has the axe keyword and glaive has heavy blade keyword). Repeating crossbow will be for rare occasions when ranged attacks are the only option.

Getting greatspear prof is an option, but I noticed that all the cool feats later on for spears (and polearms for that matter) require quite a bit of strength and dexterity or have to have martial class). I may stay focused on heavy blades then. Then again, any of the great weapon mastery feats at paragon or epic require high str or dex, so it may be a moot point.

If I start with dex 13, instead of con 13, I could get two weapon fighting for +1 more damage with an Urgrosh, then two weapon defense for +1 AC and +1 Reflex with Urgrosh. Urgrosh by itself is a defensive weapon, so gives +1 AC. Since my ardent will never have anything higher than chainmail and will be in direct melee (unless he goes reach weapon but even so), the extra +2 AC would be nice (and I could use an Urgrosh!!!!). Doing this, I would have to go with axe weapon focus for the Urgrosh. Since halberd also has the axe keyword, I could use it as my reach back-up weapon for certain situations.

Another idea I had to help the entire group (something you guys could also do in PoL), is for everyone to take the Enduring Mountain tribal feat. Then, whenever anyone uses a healing surge, they will get 5 additional hit points.

Thanks for the tip about fabricaherois Gary. I only spent a few minutes with it a few days ago and didn't realize you could translate it.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
« Last edit by Viktor on Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:33 pm. »
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Updating...

Jon - gnome illusionist wizard (controller)
Nathan - warforged swordmage (defender)
Gary - half-orc tempest fighter-rogue (striker/defender)
Viktor - kalashtar clarity ardent (leader)
Mike - ???
Marek - ???

Nathan's defender has some controller to him, Viktor's leader has some defender to him, and my striker has some defender to him. Oh, and Jonathan's controller is all controller. ;)

We've got all the bases covered. If I could pick one more PC for this party, I'd say a ranged multi-target striker, like a sorcerer or archer ranger. But anything Marek and/or Mike want to run would be a bonus.

Also, our race choices are all pretty solidly Eberron. :) Kalashtar and warforged were created for the campaign setting, and both gnomes and half-orcs have specific places in the setting.

One more look at the roster...

Jon - PHB2 race, PHB1 class (strongly enhanced with AP)
Nathan - EPG race, FRPG class
Gary - PHB2 race, PHB1 classes (using PHB3 hybrid rules and soon a DDI multi-class ;) )
Viktor - EPG race, PHB3 class
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
« Last edit by Gary on Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:31 pm. »
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
Something I'm eager to try once my PC hits level two and takes the assassin multi-class (no magic items assumed)...

3d6 + 6 = Pommel Smash rogue daily
2d6 = sneak attack
2d6 = two assassin shrouds
1d6 = half-orc furious assault racial power

Totals up to:

8d6 + 6 once a day if I can spend a couple rounds applying shrouds and get CA. :D
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
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Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Viktor, I wouldn't suggest an ugrosh, as it's a +2 prof weapon. Your number 1 priority as a leader is hitting so you can land your buffs. I'd stick to +3 prof weapons, and just decide if you want reach (go greatspear) or not (go greatsword/falchion/fullblade).
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
garyh wrote
Viktor, I wouldn't suggest an ugrosh, as it's a +2 prof weapon. Your number 1 priority as a leader is hitting so you can land your buffs. I'd stick to +3 prof weapons, and just decide if you want reach (go greatspear) or not (go greatsword/falchion/fullblade).


Yes, that is always the quandary, but I'm not too worried about one extra point. After all, Ravenblade is behind two attack points because of a +2 prof craghammer and lower strength. Mal does fine with the lower +2 prof glaive. It's not just for leaders that hitting is important though, pretty much everyone, especially when really wanting to hit with that daily.

Maybe we should all just have +3 prof weapons automatically and weapon expertise automatically, eh.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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Ok, I think I have everyone started on a background, at least. I'll continue to try getting info up on the world over the next couple of weeks.
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Mal Geminous - Tiefling Warlord, Scales of War
Corydimbiddle - Gnome Artificer, Points of Light
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
Got a name, and hashed out some background with Josh.

Khavak'aashta d'Tharashk

Broken down, that's Khavak of Clan Aashta of House Tharashk. In day to day usage, he goes by Khavak'aashta, as House Tharashk members only use d'Tharashk for formal ocassions.

His companions call him Khav. :)

Also, showing off a little... Take a look at my 4e PC roster in visual form here:

http://deadgoblins.com/topic.php?id=73

All six of my permanent (i.e., non-Delve) 4e PC's - between here and EN World - illustrated as Khav is above.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
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Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
I just discovered via a tip from an EN Worlder that you can give free feats in the character builder. So if we wanted to we could do the free Expertise at 5/15/25 thing. There's a small button on the feat page that you can click to allow an extra feat. It looks like a little gold house and is at the top of the box at the bottom of the page that lists which feats you've chosen.

So that's an option we could use and not have it break the Builder or require us to do extra math. If we wanted to.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 4627
So, that means you can take Expertise at Level 5. But, you will get +2 at level 11, not 15, right? Of course, with our current pace in SoW, that means we can wait a couple of years before we worry about that. :)
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Mal Geminous - Tiefling Warlord, Scales of War
Corydimbiddle - Gnome Artificer, Points of Light
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
Nice! That little house sounds like the houserule symbol that appears when you give your character 25 in all attributes to look at options. I'm in favor of free expertise feats, since it's almost obligatory to take and it would mean one more slot for other fun and flavoring feats.

Every DM has to decide that for themselves though, but I'm leaning towards including this rule for PoL.

Josh is right, the +2 would automatically occur at level 11. That's fine I think.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
« Last edit by Viktor on Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:17 am. »
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Yup, that's the same symbol, Viktor.

Now that we've got a way to make it work easily in the CB, I'm happy to use this rule, too, for the reason's Viktor mentioned, and also don't mind that the +2/+3 come at 11th/21st.

All the currently declared PC's could make due with one free expertise feat (WE: Light Blades for my PC, IE: Orb for Jon, WE: Spear ;) for Viktor, and FE: Whatever Sword Nathan Uses :-P ), but I think just giving it free for all weapons/implements used would be okay, too. That keeps paladins, clerics, etc. from being screwed. And there are still plenty of other reasons (Weapon Focus, Arcane Implement Mastery, etc.) to stick to your main attack item most of the time.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
I second Gary's suggestion and also agree that weapons/implements can be free too.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 4627
Maybe we should give everyone 25 ability scores while we are at it. ;)
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Mal Geminous - Tiefling Warlord, Scales of War
Corydimbiddle - Gnome Artificer, Points of Light
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Well, the thing about the multiple free expertise feats is, no matter what you do, you can only benefit from using one weapon at a time (barring two weapon users who for some reason want a different weapon type in each hand). And all your feats and gear are geared towards one type of thing. Giving my fighter-rogue WE: Bows on paper doesn't matter when all his feats (Weapon Focus, Mastery, etc.) and magic items are geared towards light blades. I'll still stick with shurikens or daggers to make ranged attacks.

It just keeps from screwing classes (more than is already the default for having two attack items) that use both weapons and implements that aren't (or can't be, like the bard with Arcane Implement Proficiency) the same thing, such as the holy symbol using paladin, cleric, and invoker.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
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Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 4627
Oh, I know. I was just making a joke since he discovered how to house rule the system now.
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Mal Geminous - Tiefling Warlord, Scales of War
Corydimbiddle - Gnome Artificer, Points of Light
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Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
The extra point buy is easy. Just keep raising your stats. In fact, for Living 4th Edition, we use a 25 point buy, so my PC for that was already house-ruled according to the builder. :)
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
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Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
Gary wrote
It just keeps from screwing classes (more than is already the default for having two attack items) that use both weapons and implements that aren't (or can't be, like the bard with Arcane Implement Proficiency) the same thing, such as the holy symbol using paladin, cleric, and invoker.


Or the two weapon fighter or two weapon ranger or anyone wanting to use two weapons of different types. What about versatile character builds that routinely use a melee weapon and a ranged weapon? Should we allow to choose an automatic expertise for each?
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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Viktor wrote
Gary wrote
It just keeps from screwing classes (more than is already the default for having two attack items) that use both weapons and implements that aren't (or can't be, like the bard with Arcane Implement Proficiency) the same thing, such as the holy symbol using paladin, cleric, and invoker.


Or the two weapon fighter or two weapon ranger or anyone wanting to use two weapons of different types. What about versatile character builds that routinely use a melee weapon and a ranged weapon? Should we allow to choose an automatic expertise for each?


I figure the two-weapon user, say a dwarf with an axe and hammer in each hand, is still heavily discouraged, since you're splitting the usefulness and feat slots between things like Weapon Focus, Deadly Axe, Hammer Rhythm, Axe Mastery, etc. So I really don't think just a free expertise to both weapon types will make everyone rush out and pull off a build like that.

I know my fighter-rogue will stick mainly to light blades (short sword, dagger, shuriken), unless the only target is out of shuriken range, then he'll bust out his crossbow.

You ardent will stink at any ranged attack. If you like switching between greatsword and halberd, eh, whatever.

The gnome illusionist is all orb all the time.

The swordmage will use his sword for all his powers.

I just don't see multiple Expertise's being an issue, especially in this group.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
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Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
I didn't ponder the house rule in regard to this one particular line up of characters, but was thinking in general terms and versatility. If we allow certain divine characters two automatic expertises (weapon and implement) then maybe we should also allow two for all characters. After all, paladins/avengers/etc. powers that use implements often target generally weaker defenses so the automatic expertise is that much more effective. Just thinking of balancing character options.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
Viktor wrote
I didn't ponder the house rule in regard to this one particular line up of characters, but was thinking in general terms and versatility. If we allow certain divine characters two automatic expertises (weapon and implement) then maybe we should also allow two for all characters. After all, paladins/avengers/etc. powers that use implements often target generally weaker defenses so the automatic expertise is that much more effective. Just thinking of balancing character options.


Implement powers target F/R/W, which are lower, but don't get the +2 or +3 proficiency bonus weapons get vs AC, so that evens out. Weapon attacks vs F/R/W are thus awesome. :)

I'm fine with saying each PC can have two free expertise feats (any combo of weapon, implement, and focused). That makes things even for everyone.

My rogue would take light blade and crossbow.

Your ardent could take polearm and heavy blade (falchion, halberd, and greatspear all covered ;) ).

The gnome illusionist could take orb and whatever second implement he may pick up at paragon.

The swordmage could take FE: Whateversword and WE: Spear for the occassional javelin toss.

A hypothetical cleric or paladin could take WE Whatever and IE Holy Symbol.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
« Last edit by Gary on Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:46 pm. »
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Sounds more balanced and give choices, which would be more fun.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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Okay, it's decided. Josh, make a note of it. ;)
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
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Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 3164
Kurvilis:

User posted image

And he will speak in seagreen.
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Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
Updating...

Jon - Kurvilis, gnome illusionist wizard (controller)
Gary - Khavak'aashta, half-orc tempest fighter-rogue (striker/defender)
Nathan - warforged swordmage (defender)
Viktor - kalashtar clarity ardent (leader)
Mike - ???
Marek - ???

Mike, Marek, you out there? :)
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
I'm looking for a good text color for my ardent. Any suggestions? Gary, I thought I saved the url for that colors website, but can't find it. Do you still have it?
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)

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