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PoL Character, Leveling, and Rules discussions

Moderators: Emily, Gary, Jonathan Berg, Josh, Michael Doss, Viktor.

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Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
That makes sense, Josh. My version overpowered the item. Sorry for mixing up the fire and acid. It must have made it harder to read.

To continue with your example, Cory would use a level 6 alchemist's acid flask as 1d20+11 (+9 from the item and +2 for his achemists gloves) vs reflex for 1d10 acid damage and 5 OGD acid. Is that right?

Regarding skill checks, I think you only have to be trained in the skill to be able use that alchemy recipe. Most of the recipes have arcana as an option (which Cory is trained in), while some have heal or nature. If you want to retrain Cory's skills to include nature and arcana, I think that would cover all recipes.

Since we're talking about alchemical ammo, there's also the ammunition items as a separate category that Edeya could use as arrows. Some of them are quite similar to the alchemy items, although a little less powerful in some cases and they are divided into arrows, bolts, or bullets for bow, crossbow, sling respectively. They cost about the same too. Overall, alchemy items are more versatile I think.

What you might want to do is pick a few, maybe 3-5 recipes, that interest you and let us know. That way I could include them in the treasure parcels in lieu of some gold, gems, or potions.

Also, as a reminder, the group found 2 flasks of level one alchemist's fire on the first level of the Keep. They also found a comprehend language ritual and a healing potion during the adventure (see here: PoL Archives). I think Azad also received a comrade's succor ritual from Elend the magic-user in his prologue solo. I suppose Cory could transcribe the two rituals into his book and he's probably the best to use the fire flasks. I don't know who has the healing potion.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Realized as I was posting just now I had never updated my stat block to level 4 and hybrid. Here's a base stat block for reference, as the one in the adventure thread already has HP deducted, temp HP added, and encounter powers used. :)

  •  Azad Halim al'Zahir
    • Female Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 4
    • Passive Perception: 13, Passive Insight: 13, Senses: Low-Light Vision
    • AC: 21, Fort: 17, Reflex: 16, Will: 18 - Speed: 5
    • HP: 52/52, Bloodied: 26, Surge Value: 13, Surges left: 13/13
    • Power Points: 2/2
    • Action Points: 1
    • Resists: 7 Fire

    • Bloodhunt (Race): +1 to hit against bloodied creatures.
    • Imperious Majesty (Feat): You can use Charisma instead of Dexterity to determine your initiative modifier. When you hit a creature that has not yet acted in an encounter with an attack, it takes a penalty to attack rolls against you equal to your Charisma modifier until the end of your next turn.

    • Powers
    • -Battlemind's Demand 0 / 1
    • -Blurred Step
    • -Divine Challenge
    • -Enfeebling Strike
    • -Momentum Swing 0 / 1 / 2
    • -Hold Fast
    • -Paladin's Wrath
    • -Psionic Vigor
    • -Second Wind
    • -Speed of Thought
    • -Valorous Smite
    • -Frost of Letherna

    • Items
    • -Vigilant Blade Longsword +1 - Power (At-Will): Minor Action. The weapon casts bright light out to 4 squares until you end this effect as a minor action.
    • -Vigilant Blade Longsword +1 - Power (Encounter): Immediate Reaction. Trigger: You use this power when an ally adjacent to you is attacked by an enemy adjacent to you. Effect: You switch places with the ally, and the target grants combat advantage to you until the end of your next turn.
    • -Amulet of Life +1 - Power (Encounter, Healing): Free Action. Trigger: Use this power when you spend a healing surge. Effect: You can spend an additional healing surge.
    • -Floating Shield - You do not sink beneath the surface of any liquid (unless you choose to do so). Also, gain a +3 item bonus to Athletics checks to swim, and to Endurance checks to swim for an hour or more. Also, you can swim at your speed on the surface of the water (but not underwater).
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
Wishlist time!!!!

I've created a magical item spreadsheet as Emily uses it and the following characters need to pick items.

Demuriath: level 9 item
Azad: level 8 item
Harkin: level 7 item
Corydimbiddle: level 6 item

Please post here or email me your choice. You can pick just one item you know you want or give me a selection of 2-3 maximum to choose from. If you absolutely do not want to pick your own magic item, then please also post that here. In that case, I will pick something fun and interesting for you. Thank you.

PS - The current battle is nearly over, so it might be a good idea to think about this now. ;)
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 3164
Viktor, I won't have time to look for a few days, but Demuriath would probably want armor?
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Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
I already have a magic weapon, neck item, and shield, so I'll probably be going for armor. I should be able to pick something Friday night.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 3164
Ok, got a chance to take a quick look. Depending on which fits best into your story, either Laughing Death Leather Armor +2 or Raven Cloak +2. Both seem to fit well with my image of Demuriath as well.
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Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 4627
I'll take a look later this weekend.
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Mal Geminous - Tiefling Warlord, Scales of War
Corydimbiddle - Gnome Artificer, Points of Light
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Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
Thanks Jon, Josh, and Gary. I don't think we'll finish this battle until early next week anyhow. I'll wait to see what at least the three of you pick for items before knowing what fits best now and the rest of the story. Maybe Marek will also have his choice by next week.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
I'm going to go with Heartening Drakescale +2.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 4627
I can't really find any level 6 items I want (maybe Magic Wand +1). I did find, though, the Deep Pocketed Cloak +2 (level 7), a part of the Gadgeteer's set.

I also will try look at having gotten an alchemical recipe or two, before we left for Thunderspire, if that's ok. I don't think we decided if there would be a communal store of monies for the purpose or how much. And I am also unsure how much money Corydimbiddle has.
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Mal Geminous - Tiefling Warlord, Scales of War
Corydimbiddle - Gnome Artificer, Points of Light
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
Josh wrote
I can't really find any level 6 items I want (maybe Magic Wand +1). I did find, though, the Deep Pocketed Cloak +2 (level 7), a part of the Gadgeteer's set.

I also will try look at having gotten an alchemical recipe or two, before we left for Thunderspire, if that's ok. I don't think we decided if there would be a communal store of monies for the purpose or how much. And I am also unsure how much money Corydimbiddle has.


Two options: You can ask Marek if he wants to switch item level with you, so that you get the level 7 and he the level 6 item OR you could take a lower level item for now, such as level 5 or level 4. If you take a lower level item, then you'll get a correspondingly higher level item in the next treasure parcel after this (going from PC's level 5 to 6).

Feel free to have bought whatever alchemical recipes and ingredients in Fallcrest that you want. Corydimbiddle would have bought them at the Halfmoon Trading House or Naerumar's Imports (see geography section of the wiki here).

I don't recall a group decision on any communal pool for potions, alchemical items, etc. You could decide that now on this thread if you prefer. For acquired gold thus far, you can find that in the PoL wiki as well in the archivist section here. Look at the bottom.

PS - I put these links here now for your convenience. For future reference, I also put links for the various sections of the PoL wiki in it's own thread here on deadgoblins.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 4627
I don't really want to look through all the items, so I looked through a few select level 5 item groups. I found some I could use: Ruby Scabbard (Level 5 Wondrous Item) and Alchemical Launcher (Level 5 Arms Slot). I think I like the Alchemical Launcher a little more. So, my overall wishlist, is the rest of the Gadgeteer's Set (Deep Pocketed Cloak +2, Level 7 and Gadgeteer's Goggles, Level 8), Alchemical Launcher (Level 5), and Ruby Scabbard (Level 5)
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Mal Geminous - Tiefling Warlord, Scales of War
Corydimbiddle - Gnome Artificer, Points of Light
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Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 3164
Re: stealth, Gary would be better in terms of whatever the rules actually are, but I believe one requires some sort of cover or concealment. It would seem to me that in areas of low light (shadows), there would be concealment, hence a stealth check to hide in shadows would be possible. If not, it just seems sort of wasteful as a skill in any setting beyond creeping ahead of the group and spying, right?
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Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
I vaguely recall looking at the rules a long time ago. My feeling was the rules were too stiff to be of any use. It seemed that the only way to remain hidden is to ensure concealment at all times, but then it would be impossible to sneak up on an enemy in combat.

I actually like the way you are using stealth with shadows, since that fits Demuriath very much. Outside of combat, I don't care what the rules say as long as it's used appropriately as you just did.

I'm inclined to allow "hiding" even in mid-combat, but imagine some type of cover would be needed at least. Does being hidden essentially mean you're invisible? If so, maybe more than just cover from standing behind an ally would be needed. Looking at Dem's encounter power "Shade Form" would support this since it mentions allowing ally's cover to allow stealth rolls.

I guess I'm unclear about the staying hidden bit if an enemy has line of sight, but I'm willing to ignore the details on that given Dem's shadowy nature and try and play things more akin to the Baldur's Gate PC games. We could say that if he fulfills the stealth requirements to become hidden, then he can stay hidden (even if enemies would have line of sight) as long as he doesn't move too swiftly, attack, or an enemy rolls very high perception. Would that be stretching the rules too far? Does that sound more fun? Do you have other suggestions?
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Stealth has been one of the most revised rules in the game. I haven't really looked into the most recent version, but if you're interested in the rules as written, the Essentials Rules Compendium is probably the place to look. Given Khav's new look I should probably check it out.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
I guess the essentials rules as written are a good place to start. I'm more interested in making it workable so Jon can have fun with Demuriath. Maybe you and Jon can look at them closely since your characters are heavily into stealth and then summarize for the group.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
nmathew wrote
OOC: While the wolf is hostile to us, I'm wondering how easily this can be turned into a three way fight with the wolf going psycho on a tasty goblin dropped in his lair. I can't imagine direwolves are that easy to tame, but I could be wrong. What kind of action would it take to try interacting with the wolf? Would it be a standard, minor, etc? Just fishing for options here. 8)
OOC: I won't tell you how easily swaying the wolf might be. I run skill challenges differently from what 4E suggests, more free-form. For a good example, click this link and read through the fun chase challenge the group had early on in the campaign. As you'll see, I don't tell you what the primary or secondary skills are and I don't tell you what the DC check is. A success or failure in a primary skill counts for the skill challenge total, while successes/failures in secondary skills grant bonuses or maluses only. All skill rolls should be accompanied by suitable RP. For skill challenges in battle, I allow using a minor action for the roll, but only one roll per turn (i.e. you can't convert your move into a minor and roll twice). The only exception is if you want to use your action point for a second skill roll. To get you started, if you want to "sway the dire wolf" a likely primary skill would be nature. ;) Again, please use RP with the rolls as I'm more inclined to allow any skill use that you can creatively make fit the situation (for examples, click the link). Also, I discourage using the same skill repeatedly, either as a group or an individual since that's just boring and I'm already make many allowances with free-from, multiple possibe skill use, and minor actions. I you decide to roll nature three times in a row as Harkin because he's good at it, the second and third roll may not have much of an impact (at the discretion of the DM's whims). I you have any other questions about this, please post them in this thread.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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Registered: Sep 2009
Posts: 1238
Harkin is going to try and turn the wolf from hostile to us to at least hostile to everyone. It seems plausible that the wolf would go after any tasty creature dropped onto it, but I could be wrong. If I'm really lucky, we'll have a badass mount for the dwarf. :P
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Sentinel - Warforged Shielding Swordmage (Eberron)
Allena Walmond - Human Paladin of Amaunator (Forgotten Realms)
Variel - Elf Beastmaster Ranger
Thaelan the Clanless - Dwarf Protector Spirit Shaman (Dungeon Delve 4)
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Registered: Jul 2008
Posts: 5245
Edeya will help turn the wolf. Since she is dazed this turn, I'll just do some knowledge checks. Hopefully that will give us some direction of how to turn it. She has a pretty good nature bonus.
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Dungeon Master - Scales of War
Edeya - Githzerai Seeker - Points of Light
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Registered: Oct 2008
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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Posts: 7786
Light's Shadow will reach level 5 after the current battle at the Grimmerzhul Trading Post.

If you haven't already, please begin thinking about what daily power you'll choose and what feats/powers you want to retrain. As you know I'm lenient with retraining so feel free to change multiple things.

Also, I've offered Nathan to join the PoL campaign. This will most likely be in lieu of Marek playing Harkin since the 1.5 months planned absence has become 3+ months without any indication of him returning. I've left Marek with a permanent open invitation to join back in anytime, even if the party ends up being six total.

Nathan, assuming he wishes to join, will have a brand new level 5 PC. Therefore, I've decided it's only fair to give all of you the chance to completely re-do your PC or large parts of your PC. I only ask that you maintain gender, name, and general background info that's not related to your class.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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Posts: 7786
In Edeya's recent turn, Emily wanted to move her PC 4 spaces, use a minor action to open a door, then continue moving 1 more space as part of the same move action.

So far, playing as enemies or PC's, I've always used one move action to get to the door, a minor action to open the door, followed by either another move action or a standard action.

I'm open to changing things though. What do you guys think, should we just open doors with a minor action and it can be part of a single move, similar to rolling a skill check to climb or getting up on box? It actually sounds reasonable to me and it still requires the use of a minor action. Below is the online compendium definition of a minor action. It specifically mentions opening doors, but there's no mention about whether it can be part of a move action. Thoughts?

Minor Action
Minor actions are enabling actions, simple actions that usually lead to more exciting actions. You can normally take them only on your turn. Examples: pulling an item from a pouch or a sheath, opening a door or a treasure chest, picking up an item in your space or in an unoccupied square within reach.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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Registered: Jul 2008
Posts: 5245
I don't have any text to back me up, but I just thought walking up to a door, opening it, and walking through could be done with one move and one minor action. I guess I was thinking about it like a jump or climb in the middle of a move.
But I also could see it that you can't keep going with your move after opening a door on a minor. For example, I would allow moving, pausing to attack with a standard, and then keep moving.
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Dungeon Master - Scales of War
Edeya - Githzerai Seeker - Points of Light
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Registered: Sep 2009
Posts: 1238
Hi all. I'm officially fishing for character ideas.

I'm pretty confident I can find a version of just about any general character type I want to play. I've only observed a few combats in PoL, and I don't know what the group feels you most need, especially if Harkin leaves. I note a lack of area effect, "hard" controller type powers(daze effects and the like), and (besides the insane MW) buffs. Emily seems to have the single target debuffs down.

So, I'd like to hear what general things people think would be useful to bring in. Don't think I'm going to follow your suggestions, so don't worry about bringing things up ;) One idea I had was a rebuilt Harkin, but I don't want Marek to feel like I've taken his character. You might get a lazy taclord or pacifist healer that never makes his own attacks in the end, so fire away with the wish list. I've got a few ideas, but I don't know how they would synergize with the party, so I'd like to see your thoughts before poisoning the well.
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Sentinel - Warforged Shielding Swordmage (Eberron)
Allena Walmond - Human Paladin of Amaunator (Forgotten Realms)
Variel - Elf Beastmaster Ranger
Thaelan the Clanless - Dwarf Protector Spirit Shaman (Dungeon Delve 4)
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
I'm not going to allow a Harkin revamp. Harkin will be leaving the party and you need to have your own PC.

Gary mentioned to me that Emily is considering morphing her seeker into the essentials Ranger Hunter.

I'll let the others chime in about their ideas for group synergy.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)

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