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PoL Character, Leveling, and Rules discussions

Moderators: Emily, Gary, Jonathan Berg, Josh, Michael Doss, Viktor.

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Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 4627
So, it's a feat to do more damage and get a little more range at the cost of accuracy. It's interesting, but I'll stick with the dagger. The dagger is more Corydimbiddle's size, anyways. ;)

And of course, NOW, I just noticed that it works as an implement as well. Which would allow one of the Essentials expertise feats instead? There aren't really any wands or rods I am particularly interested in (maybe some that benefit the summoned powers). Do you have what the hammer expertise feat says (weapon attacks only?) or one that allows it to be used for both (such as the White Lotus Dueling Expertise).
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Mal Geminous - Tiefling Warlord, Scales of War
Corydimbiddle - Gnome Artificer, Points of Light
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Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
Josh, here's the text on Bludgeon Expertise from the online compendium:

Benefit: You gain a +1 feat bonus to weapon attack rolls you make with a hammer or a mace. This bonus increases to +2 at 11th level and +3 at 21st level.
You also gain a +1 feat bonus to the number of squares you push or slide creatures with weapon attacks you make with a hammer or a mace.


Unfortunately, I think that means it won't work on implement attack rolls. The same is true for the older Weapon Expertise (Hammer) feat.

I think White Lotus Dueling Expertise would still be your best choice for the free expertise I'm giving everyone. Then, if you choose Hammer of Gond as one of your level up feats, they would synergize because you then would have proficiency with the warhammer.

In terms of what fits Cory, you can always re-skin the warhammer into a smaller sized Wrench or something.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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Registered: Jun 2008
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
The Essentials Bludgeon Expertise feat is weapon attacks only, so you'd still be using Versatile Expertise. But it's one way to minimize having to have multiple magic items. Of course, you could just multi-class swordmage or take Arcane Implement Proficiency (Light Blades) to use your dagger as an implement (which still ends up leaving you with Versatile Expertise).

I don't have the new Expertise article handy, though those are all playtest feats right now and therefore aren't in the builder yet.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
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Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Viktor wrote
In terms of what fits Cory, you can always re-skin the warhammer into a smaller sized Wrench or something.


That's a cool idea!
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
Josh, I've been reading up themes in preparation for the dark campaign and came across Alchemist. It has some interesting mechanics.

I know you've been interested in using alchemical items and you've chosen feats and items to further that concept. The obstacles have been understanding the rules, having to buy ingredients repeatedly, and deciding on how many items you can create.

The Alchemist theme allows creation of one alchemical item after every short rest at no cost of your level or lower, but you can only have one such item prepared at a time.

I propose that we adopt this rule for Corydimbiddle, but without taking the theme. If you have any features/feats that allow higher level item creation that would be fine. There would be no cost for the item creation and the restriction of carrying one item at a time would prevent abuse so you don't run around with dozens of items over time for free.

Would this appeal to you and does it sound fair?

Does anyone else have any objections? I ask because this would mean Josh gets free consumable items regularly while nobody else gets anything. I would not have made this suggestion if there wasn't a precedent in the rules already (Alchemist theme).

Then again, one question you guys might have is "why not just give everyone a theme?" instead of this one person treatment, then Josh can have alchemist theme for Cory and everyone else gets another and there's balance. That's a good question and I have no good answer. Maybe we should if all are agreed. Thoughts?
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
I'd love to add a theme to Azad. :)
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
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Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 4627
I would be interested in trying it out. I just don't know if it holds a lot of long term appeal (and I have already started retraining out of the alchemical items). In essence, it seems that it turns alchemical items almost into an encounter level spellbook.

There are actually two problems that I have seen with alchemical items: 1) cost (which this would more or less eliminate) and 2) the items usually aren't as good as powers (although, they do add flexibility).
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Mal Geminous - Tiefling Warlord, Scales of War
Corydimbiddle - Gnome Artificer, Points of Light
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Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
So that's two of you who want to play with the themes (Gary, Josh). What about the rest of you?
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Themes are awesome! C'mon, everyone! :D
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 3164
I haven't looked through them, but I am always game for something new to twist up my character. I am sure Gary even would have a few suggestions. (Yes, please.)
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Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
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Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 4627
Honestly, don't care that much either way.
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Mal Geminous - Tiefling Warlord, Scales of War
Corydimbiddle - Gnome Artificer, Points of Light
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Registered: Jul 2008
Posts: 5245
I'm neutral about using themes.
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Dungeon Master - Scales of War
Edeya - Githzerai Seeker - Points of Light
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Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
Okay, so that's two definitely in favor (Gary, Jon), two neutral (Josh, Emily), and one abstention (Nathan).

Upon reflection, I think that themes have to be an all or nothing deal. That means either all of you get them or none of you since I have no idea how we could substitute a theme for magical loot. I also don't know when they should occur if we go ahead with them. Each theme has a lot of fluff description, so it might be nice to dole them out at appropriate moments in the story depending on what themes are chosen (e.g. alchemist theme during an arcane competition). I think they are meant to be a part of the PC's personality and/or history in some way.

In any case, there's no immediate rush. If the general sense is to have them, then first everyone has to find an appropriate theme. If a couple of you don't feel there's anything you want or that's appropriate then we'll leave it alone.

How does that sound?
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
Nathan's return to deadgoblins is uncertain. He told me it may be a few weeks.

Jon, thank you for taking the time and effort to play your own and someone else's character. Would you mind continuing to play Hadad for the next three encounters or so? By then, you guys will have finished the Horned Hold section of the adventure. If Nathan isn't back by that time, we can have Hadad stay at the Seven Pillared Hall for some R&R until Nathan is ready to continue.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 3164
Sure, that is fine with me.
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Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 4627
Looked at some of my options for level 6. I think my Feat will be Arcane Familiar. The most likely ones are Canine Construct (Speed 7, +2 Athletics, +2 to Warding Ritual checks; I gain resist 1 vs. ranged and melee attacks while adjacent to canine) or Summoner Homunculus (Speed 6, +2 Endurance, Unseen Servant Ritual as Standard Action for no cost when none are around; any summoned creature gains +1 to att and def while adj to homunculus). The other tinkering types are Clockwork Scorpion (Tremorsense 5, Speed 6, +2 to grab checks; contains a does of poison or alchemical oil that can be applied to a weapon, which can be used once per encounter on an enemy targeted adjacent to scorpion), which would be good if I ever figure out alchemical items (definitely not right now), Crafter Homunculus (Speed 5, +2 Arcana, +2 Creation Ritual checks; enemy adjacent to homunculus takes -1 to def vs. alchemical items and is immune to those itself), Scout Homunculus (low-light, Speed 6, Fly 3, +2 Stealth, +2 Scrying Ritual checks; rolls two d20s and takes the higher for Stealth checks and can exist up to a mile away), and Warforged Faceplate (Speed 4, +2 Intimidate, +2 saves vs. OGD; while asleep faceplate remains aware of surroundings as if awake). Not exactly sure how they work exactly, though.

My Level 6 utility will probably be Phantom Structure (daily power, build a 6 sq long bridge within 20 that ignores terrain, minor action to sustain)
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Mal Geminous - Tiefling Warlord, Scales of War
Corydimbiddle - Gnome Artificer, Points of Light
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Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 3164
Level 6 utility: I am thinking ghost of the rooftops, which will give the party more movement flexibility (move action, at will, once per round you can climb or long jump up to your speed without an athletics check). Feat is looking like cruel shroud (you have CA vs a creature with a shroud on it).
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Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Cruel Shroud sounds really nice. Easy way to get CA.

I will probably take Power of the Moon for my feat. +1 to Perception, but more importantly, adds -2 to AC ENT onto my Enfeebling Strike, which is awesome.

Haven't looked at utility powers yet. My level 2 utility is from battlemind, so I think that means my level 6 needs to be from paladin, per the hybrid rules.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
Corydimbiddle (played by Josh) is a male, gnome artificer-leader.

Azad (played by Gary) is a female, tiefling hybrid paladin/battlemind-defender.

Edeya (played by Emily) is a female, githzerai seeker-controller.

Hadad (played by Nathan) is a male, genasi wizard-controller.

Demuriath (currently played by Daniel) is a male, revenant (formerly githzerai) assassin-striker.

Since Daniel may be with us for two months it would be nice if everyone posted a very brief summary about their PC's and inter-relationships here. It might also be fun for you to describe how your PC's feel about the others given what you've gone through so far. :D
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 4627
Corydimbiddle uses Magic Weapon a lot (an at-will that gives attack and damage bonuses to allies that are adjacent when he uses it) so a lot of times the party bunches up around him. Demuriath is probably the one that gets it the least because he goes off on his own. Also, he is a tinkerer, always making silly devices for skill checks. He doesn't really have a particular relationship with any other character and is a bit shy, but he desperately wants to find a little girl named Anna that has been captured and sold into slavery (he has already saved her life twice).
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Mal Geminous - Tiefling Warlord, Scales of War
Corydimbiddle - Gnome Artificer, Points of Light
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Registered: Sep 2009
Posts: 1238
Welcome, Daniel. I haven't had much opportunity to reveal much of Hadad's background. In game.

Hadad is a former half-elf paladin who once trained with Azad. After an incident he won't willingly discuss, he left (or was forced) from the Order of the Platinum Dragon and set off on his own. Eventually joining the Last Legion, which has a questionable reputation for over zealousness, he was sent on a mission to eliminate a necromancer. During that mission, he was sent on an unplanned "vacation" to the quasi-elemental plane of lightning.

He was scared, warped, and changed. He survived, and found himself dumped back on the prime material plane. Looking like a monster, he was shunned. Alone, he eventually discovered internal power to control the elements. After months of bouncing about, he finally found a farming community where he could settle down. Said community was hit by slavers, and Hadad retrieved the stolen children and began hunting the slavers.

He tracked the slavers to near The Seven-Pillared Hall, only to arrive and find some adventurers had killed or driven off his leads. Enter the Points of Light.

Hadad is touchy about his appearance, and still withdrawn from the world. His trials have caused him to be self reliant, and he's fairly vain about the innate powers at his control. He still has feelings for Azad, but knows he'll never experience love in his current state. He respects Demuriath's power and ability, but is unnerved by the semi-dead man. He thinks Edeya a tad naive and "soft," but knows she can be trusted in a conflict. Finally, he's perplexed and confused by Corydimbiddle. He teases Cory about his use of crutches to compensate for his lack of natural talent, and he's only half doing so in jest.

In combat, Hadad drops tactical nukes on the field and tries to clear it. However, he is a glass canon.
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Sentinel - Warforged Shielding Swordmage (Eberron)
Allena Walmond - Human Paladin of Amaunator (Forgotten Realms)
Variel - Elf Beastmaster Ranger
Thaelan the Clanless - Dwarf Protector Spirit Shaman (Dungeon Delve 4)
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Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Welcome to the PoL game, Daniel!

Azad is, as mentioned above, a female tiefling paladin|battlemind. Two classes, but all defender.

Mechanically, she's extremely good at marking multiple enemies, is very tough, and (thanks to her battlemind bits) is actually pretty mobile. She doesn't do a ton of damage, but she's good at her defender job.

Character-wise, she's a hopeless romantic. The sort who reads trashy romance novels, but has never met a man in real life good enough for her. She has a history with Hadad, as Nathan described. She gets along well with Edeya, and agrees with Edeya that Demuriath is kind of creepy, icky, and spooky. She shares a strong concern for innocents with Corydimbiddle. She's a follower of Sehanine, which explains her frequent lunar descriptions.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Sep 2009
Posts: 1238
It'll take me a bit to get Hadad leveled and good to go. I'll try too get him up and going by tomorrow. joy and I are taking a vacation Fri-Sun, but I expect I can keep up with postind druring it.
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Sentinel - Warforged Shielding Swordmage (Eberron)
Allena Walmond - Human Paladin of Amaunator (Forgotten Realms)
Variel - Elf Beastmaster Ranger
Thaelan the Clanless - Dwarf Protector Spirit Shaman (Dungeon Delve 4)
Moderator
Registered: Jul 2008
Posts: 5245
I'm taking Improved defenses for my feat. Also I picked blurring stride for my utility. I dropped Corralling shot for Ensaring shot.
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Dungeon Master - Scales of War
Edeya - Githzerai Seeker - Points of Light
Moderator
Registered: Sep 2009
Posts: 1238
Wow, looking at my last post, one would think I was stinking drunk. Who knew I relied upon Firefox so strongly for spellchecker? For some reason, the ritual list I had with Hadad wasn't saved in the CB. Clearly I used them a ton ;). I'm trying to sort through them, and I'm looking at the level 6 utilities. I have used my level 5 daily (get out of jail free card) exactly 0 times, and my main weapon's magic power is a keyed combo with it. That said, the level 6 utility wizard list is full of great escape options. Maybe I need to rework the level 5 power. A sick part of me is drawn to Kord's force, which is an at-will which substitutes athletics for strength checks.
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Sentinel - Warforged Shielding Swordmage (Eberron)
Allena Walmond - Human Paladin of Amaunator (Forgotten Realms)
Variel - Elf Beastmaster Ranger
Thaelan the Clanless - Dwarf Protector Spirit Shaman (Dungeon Delve 4)

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