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Scales Strategy and Tactics

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Okay folks, I'm thinking we need to discuss our battle plans for this battle and future fights. Here are a few thoughts:

Intelligence Gathering
- The high Perception folks should roll a Perception check at the start of a fight to see if they spot any environmental hazards.
- That also works with Nature in an overland environment.
- High Dungeoneering folks should do the same when in an underground environment.
- The high Arcana, Dungeoneering, Nature, and Religion folks should roll to see if they recognize anything about the monsters.

Tactics:
- We should all focus fire on a single enemy as much as possible until that enemy is downed, with the possible exception of Daggoth tying up a monster while the rest of us work.
- When guessing about minions or regular monsters, in a given situation the bigger / nastier looking monsters are likely to be normal, and the smaller or more numerous ones may be minions.
- We should be more careful about letting the tanks (Daggoth and maybe Mal) go first and engage the enemy.

Strategy:
- We should have a default overland marching order.

Please share your ideas for successful monster slaying!
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
« Last edit by Emily on Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:22 pm. »
Administrator
Registered: Jun 2008
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Location: Santa Ana, CA
I think we did most of that this battle - as well as we could, anyway. I think Hedoni's best bet is just about always to get somewhere where he's not prone, but can fire off spells - he'll just get in the way and get hurt otherwise.

In terms of marching order, he shouldn't be in the back, but should probably be near the end, as we'll likely come up to enemies more than they come from behind.
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Registered: Oct 2008
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I suggest the following standard marching order:

Marching Order #1: (for future reference)

Daggoth and Mal next to each other in the front
Salazar and Hedoni next to each other in the middle
Ravenblade to cover the rear (he has the best ranged options and dwarves don't have speed decline due to armor)

If we have to go single file then:

Marching Order #2:

Mal (he's the commander after all)
Daggoth
Hedoni (protected in the middle and equidistant from front and rear)
Salazar (can take on the rear if needed and has ranged attacks)
Ravenblade (can take on multiple opponents in the rear and attack multiples with ranged in the front)


What do you guys think?
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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I agree with all of this. Also, I think that when confronted with a large gap between us and the foes (such that we can't cross it in one move) and there may be holes in the ground, we should hold our turns until they come towards us.
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Mal Geminous - Tiefling Warlord, Scales of War
Corydimbiddle - Gnome Artificer, Points of Light
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Darth Ecks wrote
I agree with all of this. Also, I think that when confronted with a large gap between us and the foes (such that we can't cross it in one move) and there may be holes in the ground, we should hold our turns until they come towards us.


Agreed. Or stick to ranged attacks for the first round in such a case, even if it means slings or arrows for a round while we wait.

I also think Viktor's marching orders are good.

I still think we need to be more pro-active in rolling those Perception/Nature/Dungeoneering checks. In fact, for this fight, maybe we can all start trying Nature and Perception to see if we can see any more perils.
_______________
Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
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Registered: Jul 2008
Posts: 5245
To avoid future traps, pits, and other such surprises, I want to emphasize the use of skill checks in encounters. You have a variety and depth of knowledge amongst the group. Don't hesitant to roll nature, perception, dungeoneering, history, or whatever, just in case. You might find something useful that you wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

Darth Ecks wrote
I agree with all of this. Also, I think that when confronted with a large gap between us and the foes (such that we can't cross it in one move) and there may be holes in the ground, we should hold our turns until they come towards us.


I want to remind you that should consider some kind of ranged attacks also. Even if you don't move forward, you might be able to take out some minons with ranged attacks before they come get you.
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Dungeon Master - Scales of War
Edeya - Githzerai Seeker - Points of Light
« Last edit by Emily on Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:03 pm. »
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garyh wrote
- We should all focus fire on a single enemy as much as possible until that enemy is downed, with the possible exception of Daggoth tying up a monster while the rest of us work.


Let me further explain this. Each round a monster lives, it can hurt us. So having all the monsters live until the last round when we finish them all off at once means we're taking Monsters * Rounds in attacks. If we drop a monster, that's one less attack we're taking, so it becomes Round 1 = All Monsters plus Round 2 = One Fewer Monster, etc.

Now, sometimes we won't be able to get all the meleers around the same monster at the same time. But as much as we can (with the possible exception of Daggoth tying up a powerful enemy while the rest of us kill the quicker to kill things), we should all attack the same enemy until it is dead. An enemy with 5 HP left hits as hard as it did when it started, so killing that monster instead of attacking a different one is usually a smart move.

So, yeah, let's all attack the same monster as much as we can, because that way we'll reduce the number of attacks we take as each monster falls.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
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My thoughts exactly, which is what Mal and Ravenblade (and Salazar) have been trying to do i.e. killing adult red but showing unusual incompetence. Oh well.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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Okay, four more goblins, not a problem for us seasoned dice throwers, eh?

I suggest we take out the first to goblins ASAP and then focus on the back ones. We could all target the orange goblin for example.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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Viktor wrote
Okay, four more goblins, not a problem for us seasoned dice throwers, eh?

I suggest we take out the first to goblins ASAP and then focus on the back ones. We could all target the orange goblin for example.


I agree. If Mike uses an area spell on both and hits one, lets pile on that one. If he hits both, pile on orange. Once they're wiped out, then go for the back guys.

And if the back guys look to run, Mike can cast Ray of Frost on them one at a time (it slows enemies on a hit).
_______________
Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
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Sounds good to me. =)
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Orange goblin has been hit for 6 damage by Ravenblade, now go get him Younglings!!!!
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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Heh. Just because Hedoni, Mal, and Salazar were a combined 0 for 5 in attack rolls...
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
Daggoth and Mal have high intimidate values. That means they can try to intimidate an enemy into surrendering once it is bloodied (p186 PHB). This could be useful on these goblins that become cowards when outnumbered. Maybe once we have killed two or three, intimidate might work on the last one if it's bloodied. The book also mentions that there is a -5 penalty on the skill check if you don't know the creature's language, so Mal would have the best chances speaking goblin.

By the way, it seems suspicious that the lanterns have moved on their own. Since I'm new to D&D, I'm wondering if any of you have come accross something like this before. Are there such things as traps in the middle of combat that aren't natural hazards like those pits were with the kruthiks? If you make the wrong move can you trigger traps, etc? How do you prevent them or can't you?
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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I am guessing they signaled their brethren.
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Mal Geminous - Tiefling Warlord, Scales of War
Corydimbiddle - Gnome Artificer, Points of Light
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4th Edition is... supportive of battlefields that include fight-changing hazards, such as fire, collapsing ground, and... traps. I'd be careful.

Also, Mal intimidating the gobs in their own language is a good idea.
_______________
Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
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Registered: Oct 2008
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I suggest that Mal shifts to G8 (north of the brown goblin) so that Ravenblade can move to G10, draw his warhammers, and use dire wolverine strike to hit both orange and brown goblin with a +2 combat advantage against brown due to flanking.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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I heartily endorse that plan, Viktor.

I'll just be over here missing with my spells. ;)
_______________
Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
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Registered: Oct 2008
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Besides, this way Ravenblade will also become a target for the crossbows, not just Daggoth and Mal.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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Very true. Spreading out the pain amongst the party should be a major part of the strategy. While Daggoth is the designated meat shield, even his scaly hide can only take so much, so Mal and Ravenblade taking a share helps (and Salazar can do so on occasion as well with his frequent temp HP buffer).
_______________
Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
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Registered: Oct 2008
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Maybe now would be a good time to try and intimidate these two front goblins. Both are bloodied and one is flanked. They might drop their weapons and surrender, turn tail and run, cower in fear or just snarl and continue fighting, but hey.

It's probably not the best moment, since there are still a total of four of them, but Daggoth could try initimidate (at -5 since he doesn't speak goblin, but they probably speak common, so it might be less hard-besides Dragonborn's shouldn't need more than a facial expression, a snarl, and body language to instill fear).

Mal could also try next round.

I don't know, just a suggestion seeing that these battles are quite tough and we could use any advantage we can get.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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How intimidated could they be, considering we miss about 75% of the time?
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Mal Geminous - Tiefling Warlord, Scales of War
Corydimbiddle - Gnome Artificer, Points of Light
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If Mal kills brown goblin this turn, he could shift to F8 and give Mal and Daggoth combat advantage against orange. Ravenblade could then shift to G9, letting Salazar go to G10 and apply hellish rebuke on orange. Next turn, if orange survives Mal's next attack, Mal could shift to E8, giving him and Salazar comb adv against orange. Ravenblade could Hit and Run to F8, giving Daggoth and Ravanblad comb adv against orange. Should be a quicker kill that way. Of course Brown needs to be killed first.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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If we run towards the crossbowgobs, we'll get +2 movement and Ravenblade, Daggoth and Mal could reach them without standing between the braziers. Downside is that the goblins would have comb. adv. against each runner and the runners would be at -5 to attack until the next turn. The upside is that we would catch them by suprise with crossbows still in hand and if they use the crossbow, any adjacent character gets and opp. attack. Of course, if they have a melee weapon on their belt, they could just switch weapons and then attack with comb. adv. What do you guys think? Did anyone's perception roll reveal if the crossbowgobs have melee weapons as well?
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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Mal can charge from were he is, and Daggoth and Ravenblade can each move, then charge. That's be better than running, as a charge gives a +1 to hit.

I don't think you need to worry about the braziers, as they move south next time they go. The melee'ers can shift along the wall before the braziers return.

I'd assume the gobs have melee weapons.
_______________
Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign

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