DeadGoblins.com » Forgotten Realms » Leveling, item, and other character issues

Leveling, item, and other character issues

Moderators: Jonathan Berg, Michael Doss.

Page: 1 2 >

Author Post
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 3164
Use this forum to discuss leveling up. Also, in light of the recent rules changes, whining is permitted.

Ari, from what I noticed, this mostly affects you, as Healer's Lore now only grants bonus HP when a surge is granted. So Astral Seal will lose 5 HP worth of effectiveness (along with any other powers in that vein you were planning on taking).
_______________
Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 3164
The party will have enough XP to level up after this battle, so if you want to start talking about level 2 options, now might be a decent time. On the note of leveling up, one of the things that has bothered me about DnD is that gaining a level just happens, and all of a sudden, one has a new ability. I am going to try to work level gaining into the story, at least a little. Whether it's getting an award, your deity speaking to you in a dream, or even finding someone to train you, I just want something a little more substantive than "Yay, I gained a level and a cool new spell." I guess I just want to see leveling roleplayed a bit? So while you will have the XP to go to level 2 after the fight, the timing of it won't be quite that simple. Does that make sense? Anyone have overly strong objections to that?
_______________
Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
I assume you mean for the powers, but not for the stats like hp and defenses. Are you also intending for feats to be delayed? In general, your idea sounds like it might be fun, although in a longer dungeon-crawl it might be a disadvantage for the players.

For now, I don't mind waiting quite a while to level up my battlemind since Psionic Power book is coming out on 8/17/10 and will have new options for me.
_______________
Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 3164
In a dungeon crawl it will happen more immediately. I am not going to allow this to be a disadvantage to the players in any way.
_______________
Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
Moderator
Registered: Sep 2009
Posts: 1238
I'm fine with leveling not being an off-screen magic process, so long as it's not a disadvantage as John promises. Allena's deity is a built in means of generating leveling events, but others might not fair so easily...

Speaking of which, Paladins have no less than 3 level 2 utilities worth taking. I'm leaning towards Virtue: It's a minor action that uses a healing surge to let Allena gain her healing surge's value in temp HP. I expect a defender to use a healing surge per fight minimum, it will make her super durable early on when I might mass sanction 4-8 baddies, plus it takes a bit of the load off the leaders. I plan to use it early every battle. If I'm unhappy with it, I'll swap for either Call of Challenge (encounter minor CB3 divine sanction for the turn) or bless weapon (daily that gives +1 to hit, +1d6 radiant damage, and crits on 18-20 on creatures vulnerable to radiant damage. This gets very good with my upcoming feats).

For my feat, I'm looking at either Power of the Sun, which stacks radiant damage vulnerability onto my go-to radiant at-will attack, or Solar Enemy. Solar Enemy grants or increases radiant vulnerability by 5 in a CB2 UENT. With Oboro, I figure her radiant dealing target 3 at-will could deal some crazy damage that turn. It might even make using an action point for that at-will a good choice on occasion. :mrgreen:

I'll need to go dig-up my paladin build to see if there were other feats I really wanted before those two, but I'm slowing gearing up the radiant beatdown.
_______________
Sentinel - Warforged Shielding Swordmage (Eberron)
Allena Walmond - Human Paladin of Amaunator (Forgotten Realms)
Variel - Elf Beastmaster Ranger
Thaelan the Clanless - Dwarf Protector Spirit Shaman (Dungeon Delve 4)
Member
Registered: Dec 2009
Posts: 115
Location: california
I would gladly receive any suggestions about what feats/powers/whatever to take.
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
Jon, I can level up Geron with what's available in PHB3 for now. However, Psionic Power is coming out in a couple of days and may have all sorts of interesting new options. What are your rules for PC development when new source material is released? Should I wait? Can I retrain as many things into new source material as I want? Should I wait to retrain until Psionic Power hits charbuilder next month?
_______________
Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 3164
The rule was that you can retrain anything from new source material. I will not have Psionic Power, and since it won't hit the compendium or CB until next month, if you want to use it before then, you will just have to be patient with me, but feel free.
_______________
Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
Jonathan Berg wrote
The rule was that you can retrain anything from new source material. I will not have Psionic Power, and since it won't hit the compendium or CB until next month, if you want to use it before then, you will just have to be patient with me, but feel free.


Cool! If there are things I really want in Psionic Power, I can always type them up in a word document or something. Thanks!
_______________
Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
Moderator
Registered: Sep 2009
Posts: 1238
  •  Allena Walmond
    • Human Paladin 2
    • Passive Perception: 13, Passive Insight: 20
    • AC:21 Fort:15 Reflex:15, Will:17 - Speed:5
    • HP:40/40, Bloodied:17, Surge Value:10, Surges left:12/12
    • Action Points: 1, Second Wind: not used
    •  
    • Powers  
    • Items
      • Plate Armor
      • Heavy Shield
      • Bastard Sword
      • Backpack
      • Bedroll
      • Belt Pouch
      • Flint and Steel
      • Hempen Rope (50ft)
      • Torch (2)
       
    • Abilities
      • Languages Common, Chondathan
      • Human Defense Bonus +1 to Fort, Ref, and Will defenses.
      • Bonus At-Will Power
      • Bonus Feat
      • Bonus Skill
      •  
      • Skills
        • Acrobatics -3
        • Arcana +0
        • Athletics -3
        • Bluff 5
        • Diplomacy +12
        • Dungeoneering +3
        • Endurance +4
        • Heal +6
        • History -1
        • Insight +10
        • Intimidate +10
        • Nature +3
        • Perception +3
        • Religion +5
        • Stealth -3
        • Streetwise +5
        • Thievery -3


Character sheet pdf

Character Builder file
_______________
Sentinel - Warforged Shielding Swordmage (Eberron)
Allena Walmond - Human Paladin of Amaunator (Forgotten Realms)
Variel - Elf Beastmaster Ranger
Thaelan the Clanless - Dwarf Protector Spirit Shaman (Dungeon Delve 4)
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 3164
Still waiting on Ered, Geron, and Marcus for level 2. Once I have those, we will continue.
_______________
Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
For now, I'll have Geron take Psionic Vigor as his level 2 utility (grants 6 temp hp as a minor encounter power) and dwarven weapon training as his feat. Once my copy of Psionic Power arrives, I might want to change those.
_______________
Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
I probably won't have a chance to take care of it tonight, but should be able to tomorrow. No idea what I'm taking.
_______________
Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
There are some things in Psionic Power that I'm considering for Geron. I don't mind waiting 2.5 weeks for the next charbuilder update to finalize it though. I did want to get some input from the other players regarding an at-will retrain and the level 2 utility, to see if one or the other might fight better.

I'm thinking of retraining Bull's Rush level 1 at-will (vs AC, weapon damage and pushes 1, augment 2 is the same but blast 3 enemies only) to:

Conductive Defense (vs REFLEX, weapon lightning damage and the enemy takes 4 extra damage EVERY time it hits an ally USNT Geron, augment 2 just does more damage)

or

Vicious Cobra Strike (vs AC, one or two creatures, CON-mod damage if two targets otherwise weapon damage on one target, the target(s) is marked UENT, augment 1 also marks an enemy adjacent to the target, augment 2 is burst 1 enemies only, weapon damage, marked UENT, and targets have -2 attack UENT)

For the level 2 utility, I will either take Psionic Vigor (minor, encounter, 6 temp hp) or Dimension Slide (move, encounter, ranged 5, targets are you and one ally, effect: You slide one target 1 square and teleport the other target 3 squares)


Regarding the new at-wills, Conductive Defense is nice that it's vs REFLEX and the extra 4 damage would work especially well against enemies that burst or blast us (i.e. the high shaman would have taken anywhere between 4 and 16 damage when it used a burst/blast attack).
Vicious Cobra Strike is great that it can target two creatures (minion killer), more marking for one round apart from Battlemind's demand, and can potentially mark four enemies with augment 1 (maybe 3 only, not sure about the wording), and can enemies only burst 1 attack, mark, and debuff with augment 2. I feel it's a very defendery power and would help Geron isolate enemies away from allies, while Allena isolates the rest.

Psionic Vigor utility is a no-brainer for a defender, but Dimension Slide may be a useful tactical option in many situations, in and out of battle.

Does anyone have any comments or suggestions?
_______________
Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
My votes are conductive defense and dimension slide. CD would word VERY well with Allena, since with CD and Divine C/V in place you can effectively "damned if you do damned if you don't" double "mark". DimSlide looks really fun and useful.
_______________
Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 3164
Viktor, if you want to play with these now, that is fine. You will just have to remind me what they do when used.
_______________
Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
Gary wrote
My votes are conductive defense and dimension slide. CD would word VERY well with Allena, since with CD and Divine C/V in place you can effectively "damned if you do damned if you don't" double "mark". DimSlide looks really fun and useful.


That's an interesting tactic I hadn't thought of. So if Allena marks an enemy and Geron conductive defenses the same enemy it will be at -2 to attack anyone but Allena and take radiance divine challenge/sanction damage. If the enemy attacks Allena only it will take 4 lightning damage. If the enemy attacks both Geron and Allena with a burst/blast, it will avoid the radiant divine damage but might still take the 4 lightning damage for hitting Allena.

Implementing it might be tricky depending on initiative order though and trying to use the tactic would "tie down" both defenders on one enemy. I guess the other catch is that conductive damage extra damage only triggers if an ally is hit, not just attacked as is the case with divine challenge/sanction. Your suggested tactic would actually also work well to "hammer home" Geron's own Battlemind's Demand mark. If he marks an enemy and the hits the enemy with conductive defense, it will be at -2 to attack anyone but Geron, if it shifts away he can shift along with Blurred Step, if it attacks an enemy while next to Geron and hits it will take it's own attack damage (Mind Spike) PLUS 4 lightning damage (conductive defense) in retribution. To me that sounds very, very discouraging for the enemy to risk NOT attacking Geron. Of course a burst/blast attack including Geron would avoid Mind Spike, but still incur the 4 lightning damage. Another thought is that I'm not sure I would ever use the augment 1 or augment 2 versions of Conductive Defense, whereas with Vicious Cobra Strike and see myself trying to mark additional enemies with augment 1 or burst 1 attack enemies only with augment 2.

I like Vicious Cobra Strike because it is a way to attack two enemies for 4 damage OR one enemy for full weapon damage AND the augment 1 or 2 parts are more likely to be used than those for Conductive Defense. Being able to multi-mark might be very nice to pin down a few enemies away from the group, although we always have to be careful not to erase each other's marks.

My other thought for the additional at-will is asking the question: "Would I use this at-will instead of Iron Fist and why?" Iron Fist is sort of the twins strike or magic weapon of battleminds.

Another thought is that I'm not sure I would ever use the augment 1 or augment 2 versions of Conductive Defense, whereas with Vicious Cobra Strike and see myself trying to mark additional enemies with augment 1 or burst 1 attack enemies only with augment 2.

Dimension slide DOES look very useful in and out of combat and Geron doesn't really depend on extra temp hp since he's got all his resist this, resist that stuff going on.

Other thoughts? Gary, any thoughts about the other two new battlemind at-wills?
_______________
Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
Moderator
Registered: Sep 2009
Posts: 1238
Both new at-wills look solid. I like the look of conductive defense for the following reasons:

I hate to miss and weapon versus non-AC defenses rock. That's just me though.

It solves the defender's biggest weakness in defending: how do you defend against controllers and wizard style strikers?

It gives a very solid catch-22 situation between Geron and Allena for solo monsters. In the last fight, I got the feeling we didn't really have much except for a -2 debuff going on. Now Allena can try marking and hitting for an additional -2 debuff, and Geron can force the solo to take damage for hitting anyone but himself. It puts the monster in the position of attacking Allena to avoid her divine challenge radiant damage, but taking lit damage in return. Alternately, Allena can work on the radiant vulnerability angle with her new feat/at-will combo, which makes ignoring her mark even worse.

I think we could have been a tad bit more proactive in the last solo fight. If Allena had delayed until right before Geron, she could have marked, attacked with her "I marked you and now I debuff you again" attack, and Geron could have overridden the mark with his higher damaging mark.

Alternately, if Geron wants to become a mark bursting fiend like Allena is becoming, join the club :P If we get 2-3 rounds of marking most of the battlefield, we'll be in great shape early on.

I would go with dimension slide and see how useful it is. We've got a big party, but 1+2*0.5 healers to help out. I can see the temp HP not being as useful as mobility with the current party make-up. Berna wants flanking, Marcus wants the ability to charge, the defenders often want to spread out, two characters with no business in melee, etc.
_______________
Sentinel - Warforged Shielding Swordmage (Eberron)
Allena Walmond - Human Paladin of Amaunator (Forgotten Realms)
Variel - Elf Beastmaster Ranger
Thaelan the Clanless - Dwarf Protector Spirit Shaman (Dungeon Delve 4)
« Last edit by nmathew on Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:11 am. »
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
Thanks Nathan. Thanks Gary.

Your suggestions are appreciated.

I also hadn't thought of how Conductive Defense would work especially well against solos and very nicely against magic-users to make them reluctant attacking allies. After all, bursting on six heroes doesn't look as appealing anymore when you might incur 20 ligthning damage in retaliation. It IS nice that Conductive Defense doesn't have the usual "if an attack doesn't include you as a target" rider.

In short, I'm convinced to try it out!

Also going for Dimension Slide, since mobility is a weakness with Geron, it can help our tactics, and it can be used out of combat.

Good catch on our missed tactical opportunity against the shaman. I think Allena's debuffing attack and marking works best if she goes before all of us in solo fights.

Jonathan, since Psionic Power won't hit charbuilder until 9/7/10, I'll post Conductive Defense and Dimension Slide in their entirety as part of Geron's stat block meanwhile.
_______________
Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Hey, it's Allena!

http://lrcommissions.deviantart.com/art/Commission-Female-Paladin-134573269?q=gallery%3ALRCommissions%2F6944440&qo=6
_______________
Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Sep 2009
Posts: 1238
Allena has straw blond hair, thank you very much ;) Pretty good pic, actually.
_______________
Sentinel - Warforged Shielding Swordmage (Eberron)
Allena Walmond - Human Paladin of Amaunator (Forgotten Realms)
Variel - Elf Beastmaster Ranger
Thaelan the Clanless - Dwarf Protector Spirit Shaman (Dungeon Delve 4)
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 3164
Essentials hit the compendium (but not the CB, I don't think) yesterday. If, after this battle, anyone wants to retrain into an essential class, essential expertise feats, etc... I will allow that, as you just leveled up a short while ago.
_______________
Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 5084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
I want to see what the new Totem Expertise looks like. :) hopefully it's in the next Essentials book with the druid...

Posting from the Fort Lauderdale airport. Don't expect character posts from us today. :)
_______________
Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
Moderator
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 3164
At our next level up, I would like everyone to transition their characters into the new online CB, as this is the only one that will be supported going forward. What this means is that houseruled feats will not be able to be put in. So, please give me your vote on what you would like to do:

Option 1: Keep the easiest feat to remember offline until such time as the new CB accepts houserules. (This will probably be one that does not add a power or affect existing ones, like a weapon proficiency, improved initiative, or something of that ilk.)
Option 2: Remove the houseruled feats entirely (meaning you will all redo your feats if you want expertise, which you probably do), and I will adjust the level of things you fight accordingly.

I will go with majority vote on this, and I will break a tie.
_______________
Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
Moderator
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
When's our next level up Jon? Didn't we just reach level 2 only two battles ago? How soon do you want an answer?

What I'm getting at is by the time we reach level 3, houserules may have been added to the online character builder.
_______________
Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)

Page: 1 2 >

DeadGoblins.com » Forgotten Realms » Leveling, item, and other character issues

DeadGoblins.com is powered by UseBB 1 Forum Software