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Strategy/Tactics

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Registered: Oct 2008
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Emily's suggestion is a good one, so I took the liberty of starting this thread.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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I'm still a 4e newbie, so I'm very open to suggestions on play improvement. Viktor, from roleplay, it looks like your battlemind is going to try and slug it out with one enemy at a time until they die. If that's correct, I'll make certain to not override your mark unless the situation really calls for it. Paladins get some nice multimarking powers, and I was thinking I would have Allena drop her divine sanction down liberally if possible. That will probably call for a bit more mobility than normal. Maybe I'm just used to a swordmage wanting to disengage.

For anyone that doesn't know, the paladin mark trigger is a free action, but it can only hit a particular monster once per round. As such, multimarking loses no utility for the class.
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Sentinel - Warforged Shielding Swordmage (Eberron)
Allena Walmond - Human Paladin of Amaunator (Forgotten Realms)
Variel - Elf Beastmaster Ranger
Thaelan the Clanless - Dwarf Protector Spirit Shaman (Dungeon Delve 4)
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That sounds like a good place for us to start. Allena marks all over, while Geron picks one and sticks with it. This is the first any of us has played a battlemind and the first that we've played with two defenders at the same time. I'm sure we'll work out a smoothe strategy eventually.

My thoughts on good battlemind tactics are for him to mark an enemy that's also near some allies. That way his blurred step might block enemy movement towards an ally and his mind spike might trigger if an ally is attacked. He essentially NEEDS to remain adjacent the the marked enemy to be effective. An alternate tactic is to go for a distant, lone enemy and keep it engaged. However, I don't want to do this too often since his AC is quite low for a defender since I went with two-handed weapon instead of shield and one-handed. Geron will essentially either be a bodyguard defending against only one enemy or a duelist.

Unlike the paladin, the battlemind Mind Spike damage can only be used once per round as an immediate reaction, but that doesn't matter since he can only mark one enemy at a time anyhow.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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I notice that our group is weak against range attackers. Being so melee oriented, I was wondering if we could come up with some ways to negotiate this weakness. I was thinking we should engage range attackers quickly. By forcing them into a melee situation we would force range attackers to fight on our terms.

I have some ideas of how to engage ranged attackers; I am wondering which ideas are good, if any. The barbarian seems very good for charging from one ranged enemy to the next. Similarly, the battlemind would be able to duel a ranged enemy one at a time. Also, the shaman's spirit could engage a single distant target; however, the spirit is useful near allies to grant healing bonuses. Perhaps they could engage distant, lone enemies while the rest of the group sticks together. I know that they would be vulnerable while alone, but not so much if the group keeps most of the enemies engaged.
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Having the spirit harass ranged enemies is certainly an option. The two slight hitches with that:

- The spirit gets an OA that stops movement, but no OA's that work if an adjacent enemy uses a ranged attack, so while I can attack far, far away through my spirit, it can't prevent ranged enemies from shooting at us.

- The healing secondary effect of my spirit. This isn't too bad to deal with, though, since it's only a minor action for me to re-summon my spirit anywhere within burst 20 of me.

- Oh, and my spirits OA defense boost boon requires it to be next to the square the PC is moving through. Not vital, but nice for setting up flanking or disengaging.

Still something I'll likely try occasionally, though.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
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We're not TOO bad for ranged attacks. At least the shaman and invoker have ranged powers, albeit at shorter distance. The rogue can probably also throw daggers, shurikens, or swear words in a pinch. ;)

I agree with Gary that it's probably best to usually have the spirit be within the crux of things to better help with flanking and bonus healing.

As for how to tackle ranged enemies, the berserker and battlemind might be the best choices to pick one or two of them off. The battlemind can actually keep a ranged enemy from targetting allies in most cases (except diagonal positioning scenarios) and force it to target the battlemind instead. The berserker can rapidly engage. The only problem with this tactic is that we will be spreading out a lot and not benefit from flanking ourselves and could easily get surrounded. Also, the battlemind's and bersker's reflex are very low so they could just as easily be killed by a repeated "shift-then-shoot" tactic of a ranged attacker they are engaging.

Overall, I think it's kind of early to know what tactics might be best in what situations and we should just experiment and have fun with it.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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I'm confused, how does the shaman's spirit help with setting up flanking?
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I could probably help with ranged enemies as well, since my barbarian is charging based. I was planning on trying to hit lot's of enemies rather then standing and fighting, so I could probably do both at once.
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Ari wrote
I'm confused, how does the shaman's spirit help with setting up flanking?


It doesn't flank itself, but it gives any allies going through a square adjacent to it +4 to defenses against opportunity attacks. So you can be more daring in provoking OA's to get flanking if you're moving near the spirit, since you're less likely to be hit by the OA.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
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Acha, that makes sense.
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Ari wrote
OOC: I only have one healing word to use per short rest. I was going to use it on Oboro. If I need to heal Allena, Ered, and Marcus as well, I'll need to take 3 more short rests? Also, unless something changed in the update, my healing word should have a +5 (healer's lore Wis bonus) + 1d6?


Ari is right, my mistake, which means Allena would be at full just from her initial healing word roll and someone else can get the bonus from Ered's healing spirit.

I think this whole thing about how many heals per short rest before PC X does whatever is a little too complicated. Can't we just do our healing and searching and assume Berna does her thing after all that? We are not in a situation that requires urgency on the part of the PC's. Also, with all these different versions of leader healing (healing word, healing spirit, infusion, etc) from different classes, it seems discussion about who heals whom, in what order, etc. is becoming very tedious. Counting short rests and having to stipulate who gets the healing word first just prolongs things and takes us even more out of the game.

If we want to speed things up, then maybe the leader PC's should just state who they heal and how the healing is distributed (in the case of healing spirit). If a player really does not want to use a surge after a battle, then they can veto their PC being healed.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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OOC: Yes, I am ok with that.
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Dungeon Master - The Dark Campaign
Sir Muurak - Mul Cavalier 14, Scales of War
Demuriath - Revenant Assassin 5, Points of Light
Kurvilis - Gnome Mage 4, Eberron
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Keeping this in the strategy thread.

nmathew wrote
OOC: So, fishing for ideas. Allena can move to E11. If blue hits with an OA, she can use her encounter power to try and mark everyone within 3. If blue does not attack, Geron's mark is still valid and she can attack blue and either mark red or heal Marcus. I'm thinking healing Marcus would be a good idea. That leaves us clustered for the robed goblin. Allena could also move to F2 via a move/charge and try to mark the robed goblin with a charge attack. This would pin the goblin such that it couldn't use a ranged attack without suffering an OA form Allena.


User posted image

I like the first idea best, for Allena to try and provoke an OA from blue which would trigger Geron's Mind Spike on a hit. FYI, Mind Spike will damage the marked enemy for the equal amount of psychic/force damage that the enemy hit with. So if Allena takes 15 damage then blue will also take 15 damage.

Healing Markus is probably a good idea, but that means using one of your two daily Lay on Hands. Charging the robed goblin is not a bad idea either, except that on a miss it can shift away one space (like all goblins) and then shift out of reach to make ranged attacks. Also, how good is Allena's charging? Isn't she mostly a chaladin?
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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Also, if Allena triggers Geron's mark, then you might want to use Valorous Smite on blue and mark red, blue, and green. Geron will then move away from blue and engage green or purple.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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I didn't know that goblins can shift on a charge. Allena has an at-will that can be used as a melee basic, and an at will (that marks) that can be used for the attack at the end of a charge. Both are cha based.
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Sentinel - Warforged Shielding Swordmage (Eberron)
Allena Walmond - Human Paladin of Amaunator (Forgotten Realms)
Variel - Elf Beastmaster Ranger
Thaelan the Clanless - Dwarf Protector Spirit Shaman (Dungeon Delve 4)
« Last edit by nmathew on Tue May 11, 2010 1:42 pm. »
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Registered: Oct 2008
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I think goblins can shift whenever a melee attack misses them. Forgot about her ardent strike, which is cool. Generally I still like the "kill the already weakened enemy with focused fire" plan better, by attacking blue.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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If blue doesn't attack, or misses, should I simply mark red and attack blue? I feel kind of bad overriding a mark if Geron wants to keep it in play.

I'm less than keen on letting the robed goblin nuke us all from orbit though ;)
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Registered: Oct 2008
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I'm not bothered either way, but if our goal is to protect Markus here, then having both blue and red marked would be good so that they're at -2 to hit others. That's why I thought if Allena uses Valorous Smite on blue, she might kill it and be able to mark red, blue, and green. That might be a good idea regardless of whether Geron's Mind Spike is triggered. The main thing I think is to have red and blue marked somehow at the very least.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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Registered: Oct 2008
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nmathew wrote
If blue doesn't attack, or misses, should I simply mark red and attack blue? I feel kind of bad overriding a mark if Geron wants to keep it in play.

I'm less than keen on letting the robed goblin nuke us all from orbit though ;)


If the robed goblin is another goblin hexer, then it's likely going to use that obscuring cloud it has, which will make it harder for all of us to hit. Unless Allena definitely hits it with a charge, it will still be able to get away and used a ranged power and then red is unmarked and blue not yet dead. Right now, blue is the easiest target to hit with its -2 defenses and granting CA to next attack.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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OK. With some luck, Allena pull pull a Throgg on blue and the discussion is academic :)
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Sentinel - Warforged Shielding Swordmage (Eberron)
Allena Walmond - Human Paladin of Amaunator (Forgotten Realms)
Variel - Elf Beastmaster Ranger
Thaelan the Clanless - Dwarf Protector Spirit Shaman (Dungeon Delve 4)
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Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 7786
You go Throgllena!!! ;)
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)
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Registered: Sep 2009
Posts: 1238
Well, worse case scenario was avoided. :P
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Sentinel - Warforged Shielding Swordmage (Eberron)
Allena Walmond - Human Paladin of Amaunator (Forgotten Realms)
Variel - Elf Beastmaster Ranger
Thaelan the Clanless - Dwarf Protector Spirit Shaman (Dungeon Delve 4)
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Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 361
Location: Scottsdale
Since the May update, I have been thinking about retraining my character. Before I make a choice I wanted to know if anyone's powers do radiant damage?
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I don't with Ered, but I believe Nathan was aiming that way with Allena.
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Salazar Miller - Human Sorcerer 24 - Scales of War
Azad Halim al'Zahir - Tiefling Battlemind|Paladin 7 - Points of Light
Khavak'aashta - Half-Orc Thief 5 - Eberron
Dwimmerlaik - Revenant Hexblade 2 - Dark Campaign
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Registered: Oct 2008
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Geron doesn't, but he will have 5 radiant resistance with the armor in his wishlist. Only mentioning it in case the powers you are considering have target "creature" instead of target "enemy" and Geron could withstand some damage.
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Ravenblade - Dwarf Two-Weapon Ranger, Hammer of Moradin (Scales of War)

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